The Art of Succession

welcome to the art of succession podcast

with Barrett young join us as we explore

the strategies stories and insights that

shape the Journey of leadership

Transitions and business success no

matter where you find yourself along the

journey this is the podcast where you'll

find the tools to make it happen like I

wanted to make my own money manage my

own money and support myself on my

interview I was told I wouldn't be a

partner because they don't have women

Partners to me I thought wow what year

is this whatever knowledge I needed to

gain and prove the wrong one way or

another I would either be an owner of

the firm or an owner of my own business

my name is Barrett young and this is the

arst succession podcast today's

episode's a real treat as we kick off

season two of the episode I have the

pleasure of introducing my partner to

the podcast and also interviewing her

about her own succession Journey my

partner's name is Samantha bowling she's

the managing partner here at gwcp she

started here out of college and she

worked her way up to partner in 2005 two

years ago 2023 she became managing

partner of our firm and we're going to

dig into that story the grit Innovation

and the legacy of carrying a 75-year-old

CPA firm Sam welcome to the artist

succession thanks Barrett looking

forward to this conversation so what is

it that has you most excited or most

interested on being on our podcast know

I found over my journey I guess my Life

Sharing stories really resonates with

people um and people who are struggling

or running their own businesses on their

own or think they can't do something

they listen to a story where wow she was

able to do that or they were able to do

that and I feel like that's empowering

and even though I've shared the

story to some people but you know not to

a large population of you know how we've

grown our farm and where we are today so

I think it's important to share your

story because you really have no idea

what that impact would be on somebody

else in their Journey okay great uh so

let's start at the beginning here with g

you so give me a little bit of context

you first off you knew you wanted to be

a CPA even before you went to school

from high school or middle school I

can't remember which one it was high

school it was all about money like I

wanted to make my own money manage my

own money and support myself um I didn't

really want to rely on anyone else and I

figured out the only way to be able to

do that was to really understand how

money worked and how businesses worked

so I knew I would always one day have my

own business um

either working by myself with or with

other people but I would definitely be

my own boss I always knew that is that

what brought you to a small firm from

the beginning or how did you find out

about GW I guess um actually I was at

college and there was a job over I went

on two interviews I went to the big four

first and then I went to the small firm

and I thought I did both interviews and

the big four I felt like I would never

be partner there like I knew I wanted to

be an owner by 10 years and their

partner track was probably a 20 5 year

partner track back then in the 90s for

women um or if ever like I wasn't even

sure that was going to happen so I

figured I would have a better chance

starting out a small firm um learning

more as opposed to being in a large firm

and moving into like one area of

auditing or tax they kind of like

segment you into one one area and I

thought in a small firm I can get

exposure to all areas of public

accounting and then figure out you know

is this what I really want to do or is

there like a niche I want to do either

stay with the firm I was at or you know

open my own firm and specifically about

GW was it that we're close to your

hometown you planned on returning home

after college yeah I um I didn't want to

drive to

DC I the commute for my house to DC is

not fun so I didn't want to spend four

hours of my day in a car so going to um

Opera maror from where I lived was not

that far of a commute that was back when

the traffic wasn't as bad as it was had

gotten or whatever but yeah so it was

close enough to get to 45 minutes

usually an hour drive as opposed to a

two hour two and a half hour drive and I

I I'll never forget this free parking we

always say that but that's true we

always had free parking and DZ there is

not free parking so um that was another

perk to be en closed to home and not

driving to the city at the time um

finishing school had you planned on

sitting for the CPA exam immediately or

immediately yes I I knew um when I was

in high school I knew I'd be a CPA

because in order to get to the top of

the accounting profession you have to be

a CPA I had no idea what that was in

high school I had no idea what that

involved either but I knew that I had to

get my degree first and then go the CPA

route so I knew yes I would always be a

CPA but this was an entry-level position

here at the firm yeah entry level staff

accountant um I was just started

studying for the CP exam I hadn't you

know sat for anything or whatever at

that point I was working a lot of hours

and trying to study for an

exam um and then of course I failed

miserably the first thing in my life I

ever failed on was passing CB exam so

which I found a lot of people do that so

I'm not alone in that respect but that

was definitely a humbling moment in my

career because I thought wow if I can't

pass this I know I can't be partner and

I I knew I would not be able to run my

own business and be elevated to that

trusted advisor without that CPA as a

woman without having CPA behind my name

I knew I not would not be able to do

that so it wasn't it was not an option

to not be a CPA prior to going to school

I mean you knew you wanted to be CPA

knew you wanted to work with money had

you gained any experience before jumping

into Public public accounting um yes I

worked um like um in the school I worked

there you know at the bookstore doing

accounting work I was the treasurer for

our llanta high school um I had a job at

a a pizza place which I immediately

became after 3 months manager and was

doing payroll and basically running this

piece of shop I know you're not

surprised hearing this

very so basically I was running the shop

looking for efficiencies and um

inventory and and managing team members

and stuff like that pretty early in my

career so I guess I was very blessed to

be given those strengths

um I think I was born with a lot of this

stuff I don't know where it came from

because no one of my family's accounting

or management or anything like that but

I definitely started out my career

having those skills and then they just

got developed because I was I

volunteered when I went to college I was

involved as many things I could possibly

be and just exposed myself um to other

opportunities and then when I took

accounting classes you know my electives

Ro I'm such a nerd my accounting my my

my elect is were all accounting classes

so I wanted to learn as much as I could

about accounting so that I would be

ready for you know the next chapter of

my life I I always felt like

um I had to do more as as a woman I've

always felt that way I had to do

more um and no more do more work harder

to be in the same place I always feel

like I was catching up so if I didn't do

all this stuff I wouldn't be equal so so

you came to work at GW with the purpose

of being a business owner someday yes um

how receptive were they to that idea not

receptive so I mean so I know the story

I don't know if you want to share it but

what caused you to think well I'm going

to change their minds well first I would

say um so my I guess some guess some

content there on my interview I was told

I wouldn't be a partner because they

don't have women partners and and that

and to me I thought wow what year is

this like I can't believe that we're

still having this conversation about

women being owners of business and stuff

like that I'm like well they're just not

ready in my mind I thought they're just

not ready for me yet

but I got time and I'm not ready for

them because I really hadn't done what I

needed to do you know as a professional

to become a CPA and be in that position

to ask for that role but I was ambitious

to say to be able to say I know I wanted

that position in 10 years or whatever

that was and how do I get there I I

expected to be honest after the first

couple years I really thought I would

leave and I would get as much knowledge

as I possibly could over the three to

five years and then I'd leave and start

my own business is what I thought would

happen so and I did leave actually after

five years and then came back um which

says a lot about the firm and the people

that I did work for because I felt like

things wouldn't change and the fact that

they promised they would change if I

came back and it did so I mean that

gives me hope that there is change you

know people people do value people

unfortunately you have to put them in a

difficult situation to realize what your

Val what your true value was and for me

that was leaving which unfortunate most

people in our profession leave and never

come back and you know and that's as you

know also one of my um missions in life

you know which we'll get to later I'm

sure about changing the profession where

we don't have to leave for people to

realize the value how valuable people

are so I mean I knew what you had been

told at the interview um I know that you

were here and I knew that you had left I

guess I just didn't know what would

cause somebody to walk out of that

interview and say this is the place it

sounds like at the time it was just like

well fine that I'm just going to go

there and I'll work there for a couple

years and become a CPA and they can fund

my early learning and then move on is

that about right yeah pretty much but I

also I I like a challenge I think I've

always liked a challenge so when someone

tells me I can't do something I just

like to prove them wrong like whatever

that is so it may not it may not have

been proving them wrong by becoming a

part there but proving them wrong having

my own business one day like I knew I

was going to get whatever knowledge I

needed to gain and prove them wrong one

way or another I would either be an

owner at the firm or an owner of my own

business so I I knew I'd get there so I

was more like a um a challenge and I'm

very competitive

apparently so I mean our audience is

people in succession businesses who are

waiting for their turn someday what

would you say to them about

proving yourself um how much should you

prove yourself how much is proving

yourself too much and when's it time to

walk what are your thoughts on that well

you know that's that's a really good

question Barrett because had the great

thing about this firm is that they were

wise Founders and that they built

succession into it so I knew if I did

choose to become a partner there at 60

people would start to leave well we

would have the ability to get people out

if I felt like they would hold The Firm

back and stuff like that so had that not

been in the original agreement then I

would not have stayed because I would

have never had a chance to do that so

those people who are waiting their turn

yes there there are things you have to

do you have to prepare yourself to be

ready to fulfill that role and to step

into that role as an owner so there's

something you have to do on your side

for sure but if there's no pathway

there's no written pathway there's no

understanding of how you're going to get

there there's no exact timeline I mean a

date you can measure as to how close

you're getting to it then you need to go

because they're not serious about it

they're really not so serious about

succession if they don't really have a

timeline already in place before you

sign on 22 years old coming out of

school the thought that 20 or 30 years

from now I can finally achieve my dreams

seems so far

off what is your advice to somebody

where it does seem like in this

profession you go somewhere you work

there for five years years you become a

CPA you can go start your own business

what would what would cause me to wait

five times that to take over an existing

business well I think I think you have

to Define your definition of

success success isn't always getting

somewhere first or fast or growing the

fastest it's about building something

worth staying with and that may not

happen so just because I became managing

partner whatever tailes in 23 things

were moving forward and progressing and

things were changing and getting better

so I was able to do that one step at a

time and there this is not an overnight

Journey as you know as you've learned

coming with our FB um things take time

and it takes patience and it also change

it also takes knowledge like there's

things that you don't know or understand

because you're not part of the

conversation and it's not because you

shouldn't be part of the conversation

it's just that it hasn't been shared

with you so I

think some people leave too soon because

they haven't asked the right questions

they haven't asked like what's the

opportunity what's the timeline U what

do I have to do for myself

professionally and personally to elevate

myself to the level where you would

accept me as an owner you know for me it

was I had to learn that all my by myself

I knew I had to learn how the business

ran I knew I had to know all the systems

every system whether it was used inside

the business or interfacing with our

clients or whatever it was every process

I needed to understand and then by

innovating one process at a time I was

able to impact change and that and that

took years the good thing about today

though is these young people have um I

would say more of a competitive

Advantage they have the willingness to

change they have the eagerness to adopt

technology and Innovation what they lack

sometimes is the p to understand how

business works and how relationships

work and how that stuff's not built in

five years that takes time so but if

they're not being allowed to come to the

table at a fiveyear point like if they

want to be an owner at five years

they're saying like within the next

couple years I want to be an owner and

they're not being brought to the table

about those discussions or or meeting

with clients and building those

relationships then that's a problem I

want to get to the little wins or little

indicators a on your journey that told

you this was going to work but before we

do that you know champion of change is

something a lot of young people are told

in business just take something and run

with it and prove yourself I know there

has to be at least one story where you

had a change that you wanted to Champion

and you were flat out told no or um

that's not the what we're gonna do just

one Sam just one just one okay yeah so

think think of a story where or a time

when you saw this thing you wanted to

take control of it and and make

something positive happen for this firm

and and Leadership just said no well uh

so this is really dating myself so I

would say coming to the office and not

having a

computer at my desk was a shock um even

for me coming out we had a computer at

College we had Excel we had word

whatever so I thought everybody we went

to when I went to the office would have

that and we not so I said well we should

be able to for context at this point

computers did sit on desks individually

right just in case somebody's

worried yes the PC is a thing okay we

did have a PC but it sat in our file

room one computer for the whole company

pretty much now we did have a main we

were you know Tex saing that we had a

main frame in our basement and we

process General ledgers for other

accounting firms and things like that

but and they had and I'm not the data

cards or punch cards or I'm speaking I

don't know anything about but that stuff

was there but I didn't use it so I was

the only one that would go back and use

the PC so what I said well I wanted to

be able to make spreadsheets and stuff

so that we could get everybody using

technology and I was like well no you

just need to sit at your desk and do

this book work and enter stuff in these

ledgers and I'm like uh okay but then I

just said well I'm just gonna go back

here and start making Excel worksheets

fact that it really wasn't excel's Lotus

123 gosh I am really dating myself so

Lotus 123 worksheets just actually tie

in payroll and do the same thing and

then being able to see how okay wow if

everybody used the same worksheet

there's some kind of Conformity and oh

this might be something we could expand

on so no originally no but then seeing

the efficiencies because I would get

done sooner than others on

reconciliations because I'd already done

the worksheet that's a minor one and

that took years for it to actually

impact anything but the biggest impact I

had was on auditing I wanted to make

auditing paperless

um and they're like paper's not going

away you cannot do that but I was a

manager then so I was like I can't do it

because this is my department and I'm

going to make it efficient and I can't

be competitive and carry 50 Bri cases to

audits I just physically can't do that

anyway and no and I don't want to do

that so then we started um looking into

software and so our first paperless

workpapers were in audit and once they

saw how successful that was we were able

to push it out to all work papers so it

just starts with one little area and

then everybody else sees how beneficial

that is and then you're able to push

that out to other areas that was I can

go on on there's so many examples but

always it had to do with innovating and

using technology and why do we want to

do that it's not broken but but it is so

and your method of showing them it was

broken was by using the advantages maybe

of a traditional firm where there's

these silos and saying fine I'm just

going to fix my silo

and then your other silos are going to

wonder why it's still doing it the

broken way yeah and actually it's

empowering your your co-workers so it's

working from the bottom up because if

you can't get leadership to change

things right away you get your team

members excited about and engaged about

the Innovation and and excited about oh

what could I do with this and then they

started running with it so it wasn't

just me coming with the ideas it was

other accounting staff coming with ideas

and worksheets and then deciding like we

could do this for everybody I'm like yes

we can so a lot of times as you know

bear we're all too busy doing the work

and nobody wants to take the time to

figure it out so I was willing to take

the time to figure it out so if you're

willing to figure it out people will

follow you as long as they don't have to

deal with the crap the crap of the

things that don't work as long as they

don't have to deal with that part in the

setup and figuring it out because they

don't have the time um or they don't

think that they don't think they have

the time or need to put the time into it

then they're okay you can do it so

that's what really happened if

throughout my career it was okay I'm

going to take something innovate

something for for what I'm doing allow

people to still do it the old way if

they want to do it the old way but

eventually it got so contagious um

because of the staff's involvement that

they're like we're not doing it that way

anymore so it kind of forced it from the

bottom of you you had to have some

encouragement from

above yes

at this point did was there anybody

saying keep doing what you're doing and

it's going to pay off other than that

countdown clock to 60 for all the

partners uh no all right externally yes

I would have to give a shout out to Tom

Hood At The mcpa because he was the one

I kept saying Innovation change

automation things like that and I kept

hearing no one else talk about that but

when I would go to his town halls and

listen to him to speak and I would like

I know I'm going the right direction

here know I knew I had to build a firm

of the

future and constantly evolve and

innovate so that when I got to the point

where I needed to pass this along to

somebody else it was something worth

passing along that somebody would want

to be part of so I I I was you I'm a 10e

person out always I'm always thinking 10

years down the road where where do I

need to be where does the firm need to

be um and that was something that's

learned so I took my own personal

experience of playing my own career out

for 10 years and said okay how do I plan

out DW for 10 years like where do they

need to be in the next 10 years and what

do we have to do now to get there so um

I mean we'll talk about it a little bit

later but I know volunteering is a big

thing for you um that's how we met

originally yes um but for you it was

very much I can't find that affirmation

that motivation in here anything higher

than a manager level where I'm at

correct and so I'm going to look outside

and get the these outside voices

speaking into

me to affirm that we're heading in the

right direction yeah and I I think it's

more like I just feel like a lot of you

know small firms think that things

aren't broken like they don't think and

and back then too Barett it's not like

today where we have all this great

technology constantly popping up that

think makes things better we were very

limited in the resources that we had to

innovate things and do stuff like that

so I mean I just my first Innovation was

color coding the file folders just in

the file cabinets so it was easier to

find a permanent file or a work paper

file or you know a payroll file they

were all color coordinated which was

fascinating because I was like oh my God

it made it so much easier just to find

stuff so the first thing was really

organizing that and like why would you

want to do that like because I can't

find crap in these file cabinets um so

yeah so it started with that how does

somebody who's at the middle

level get the Grassroots engaged in

change and Innovation and not be

insubordinate and not drive their

leadership crazy

or disrespect or just say you know run a

firm within a firm when the firm says

we're not heading in that direction I

mean because if you and I I don't know

maybe if somebody in in our firm said

well I'm just going to get everybody

else on board and forget what Sam and

Barrett say we're heading in this

direction how how how do you do that

effectively yeah the that's funny cuz I

was trying think who would do that that

would be awesome bear like do we have

somebody who wants to do

that that would be awesome

um yeah it's definitely a different time

too like I said you know we were going

through where where we were from moving

from paper to actually having computers

and technologies that was very

transformative just kind of like we're

going through now with the generative AI

stuff I I feel like similar situations

here like where may not be ex as

knowledgeable as younger people about

how that could transform things I doubt

it because I really loved AI but um but

you never know there might be something

that somebody says that they want to do

whatever okay so as a partner I could do

that because I was willing to pay for it

so I was willing to put my own personal

time not get paid for my time to do that

now I'm not recommending people do that

but when you when you're an owner and

you do that you're investing in your

company you're in in in your future and

stuff like that it's fine as a manager

doing that I I would not recommend that

actually I wouldn't recommend that you

stay with anybody who doesn't pay you

for

Innovation and creating new ideas so let

me put that out there for sure times

have changed if if your employer doesn't

see the value in invation automation

then that's you just need to go now

because they're never going to see it so

um but if you're trying to get changed

to happen and you have leadership at the

top that doesn't want it to

happen I I feel like for them it's they

don't want to deal with the headache of

figuring it out I I just know that's

what my my leverage was they didn't want

to figure it out so let me give you an

example to put that in perspective so we

wanted to go to paperless billing I

don't know 10 years ago probably I don't

know what that was so Kelly and I is the

firm administrator office manager

whatever back then wanted to go to

papers billing so we had decided she

came to me because she know I'd be for

it she was the one that said I need to

get this done how do we and she went to

the others and they like you don't need

to do that we're still going to do paper

no one's going to do this so then I was

like okay then she came to me and said

how do we get this done I said the easy

way to do this is still allow them to do

paper you could still print their paper

out you can still print out the whip do

it all paperly but those who want to be

Innovative as owners can move up to the

next level and be able to do paperless

and and that sucks I know that because I

you create two different processes but a

eventually the newer process are faster

and automation is faster and people

start to catch on like oh why am I

spending all this time doing this and

then what what what she was able to do

is really to say to Partners well I can

do your Billings and you can just

approve them so it took even more work

away for them they may still look at a

paper copy but it's still more

Innovative and efficient than it was

before so it's finding somebody a

champion on your team that supports

Innovation and change and I know they

seem like

unicorns they are but there is

leadership that wants that and if you're

if you're at a firm that doesn't or

company or whatever that doesn't support

that you need to have that hard

conversation with leadership to say hey

I'll volunteer to do that I'm not I'm

gonna get paid to do this but this is

what I want to do this is why I want to

do it and explain the benefits of doing

it and I guarantee you in these days I

think they'll support you if if they

don't then that's a sign right there too

so you're saying

then taking it through that and showing

this is going to make our lives better

is going to be the Proving Ground for if

they're open to change or not yeah

there's going to be plenty of people who

resist and be like now's not the right

time or it's going to take too much work

or we're concerned about what the

customers are going to you know how

they're going to receive it that's not

necessarily a brick wall that's just I

need somebody else to figure this out

but if you do all that and you figure it

all out and they're like no then that's

the brick wall that you're talking about

yeah that's the brick wall I'm talking

about and the fun and the weird thing is

I've had so many times the the main

reason has been because our customers

won't like it and that that drives me

crazy because I would never expect

clients to run their business the way

that I want that I mean I financially

yes and operational yes but I wouldn't

tell them they had to do it this way I

wasn't going to work with that I'm like

you're you're a business owner you

decide your processes when we have a

code of ethics we have to

follow as CPA so we we have that to

follow that's pretty strict there so as

long as we stay within those guidelines

I think we're doing pretty good you know

in my mind yeah talk about this a little

bit because I know you have you are very

customer centered you are very customer

service focused but talk about the

difference between being customer

focused and letting your customers run

your business go ahead and run with that

for a little bit yeah so customer focus

means understanding your customers and

being respectful that they don't like

change either

so change is successful because one you

explain why you're changing two you give

them time to adapt to that change like

it's not a one-ear change it's like like

we did paper LM it's like three years

the first year volunteer you can

volunteer to do this the second year if

you don't do a year to pay for it and

third year is going to be really

expensive for you to pay for it to be

get paper things like that so but I find

a lot of times when you just have the

conversation with them as to why you're

doing this and usually it's for their

benefit in the end because of data

confidentiality things security reason

things like that and um then they

they're more receptive so that change

yes with customer interactions is

usually when people get irritated it's

because they didn't were given enough

notice about something they weren't

giving enough instructions about

something or they weren't given enough

help um to solve a problem after

something was implemented or something

like that so that's usually where

frustration comes in or not enough time

to adapt to change when it comes to team

members adapting to change a lot of

times that resistance comes from not

knowing where their place is going to be

after the Innovation happens so a lot of

times people feel like their jobs are

being replaced or being you know

automated so they fight the change I

mean that was five years of paper list

going paper to paper list was because we

had an assembly person who would not do

paper list like she was adamant about it

so I'm like so understanding where their

place is after the change thinking

they're not going to have a job if they

would have a job it would just be a

different job with the technology so and

making sure that that's being

communicated is very important so you

interview and then you become a partner

how long did that end up taking um it

was about I guess 11 years years no 10

might have been right 11 years I think

is how long it took for that to happen

and had the people who told you this is

not going to happen had they retired had

you just changed their mind had you said

had you gotten so big they couldn't

ignore you like what made that actually

finally happened other than you left and

then were convinced to come back yeah I

I left as a manager and came back as a

manager not left and because I wasn't

going to be a partner I left because of

other situations and culture mainly

culture related situ situations um but

when I came back if I could see that

they could change then I was like okay

then this is a place where I could be a

partner like I could you know fathom

staying and continuing to innovate and

improve on things um because of that um

becoming a partner for me I really think

happened because of

Technology because I had spent all those

years innovating everything like

changing internal software peoll

software external software being the

person that volunteered to do all of

that so when there was a conversion I

said I'll do it like I want to learn it

I want to do it so I am invaluable like

like the value for me may have not have

been in the person I was as an

accounting person or CPA person but it

definitely was as a technology person so

I I knew I was able to manage client

work manage client Communications and

also innovate and I knew how basically

the business generated revenue and what

I needed to do to make money as a

partner so and to be able to keep

clients bring on clients customer

satisfaction for sure I had proven all

of those so i' had done all of those so

I knew if I didn't become a partner I

had all the tools I needed to and all

the technology I needed to start a new

firm pretty easily so and I think that

that was something they were aware of

but I also felt like they could see that

I could see the value in who I have

become as a you know as a leader in The

Firm for sure and then people had

retired as well but I'm not going to say

there weren't some naysay are still left

but there were but that's okay at the

time I know the employees meant a lot to

you oh

yes you could have gone out and started

your own firm and been successful no

doubt about that so speak to somebody

who is

stuck why I mean you said this was your

main

topic we love succession business as a g

W but there is some garbage that needs

to be left behind and some that needs to

be carried into the future how do you

know what needs to be carried into the

future and is the identity of a firm and

how do you identify what is the junk

that needs to get left behind you know

what that is the easiest question to

answer because you know and I've learned

this over the years and it's a hard

question because everyone thinks

everything needs to carry forward and I

would say if you are putting your team

first and what impacts them first you'll

know immediately what to carry forward

if it's it's something that rubs your

team the wrong way or gives people an

uncertainty or uncertain feeling about

something then you just leave it

behind and I and Barett I don't think I

could actually have done that if we

hadn't done our values you have to have

something to measure it so if your if

your company doesn't have values

that's okay but you have your own

personal values you have your own values

as a person and if this company that you

work for doesn't measure up to those

values then you know okay well or the

thing that you guys are discussing does

that measure up to your own personal

values um then it's something that needs

to be left

behind but it's that has made everything

easier for me I think the values yeah so

we went through this process two years

ago almost at this point

um what two

years and it was a matter of um

identifying the values that we believe

GW stands for and how those align with

your values as one of the partners and

my values as the other

partner but since that time two years

ago every little change that we've made

has been met with well this is you're

changing who the firm is and you're

saying absolutely not because of the

values is that what you're is that what

you're saying oh no I'm saying we

changed who the hell we were because we

needed to change who the hell we were

so so but you're saying that we changed

those to become truer to values that

already existed here or I I get every

single change we've suggested we've

heard from either a customer or a former

partner or former somebody or rather you

guys have completely wrecked the firm

it's this is not the same GW that it

used to be thank God that was so what I

was working for that was so what I

Wasing for okay so just people need to

get on board or get out of the way um

yeah I I think I mean that sounds it

sounds harsh when you say it that way

though

because but I've been patient I've been

very patient and um and I knew what the

values that were important to me as a

person and the reason I stayed I could

see I could see GW with those values and

I believe to its core the people who

were there

had those values and believed in those

same values we just didn't do anything

to emphasize what those values were we

didn't do processes about that we didn't

have benefits about that we didn't do

anything to support values because we

never defined them as a company so

um yeah so of course it would have

changed who we are we we did we didn't

have them am I thinking about this

correctly in the absence of defined

values

companies still have values right but

those values are going to be a mix of

all the other partners all the lead

employes the lead customers and who what

their values are and how they drive your

firm for you but once we said these are

our four core

values that gave us Clarity to be able

to tell somebody well that might be your

value but you're going to have to go

work with a firm that values that is

that what you're saying do you want to

know what we had 30 core values for we

had one value Barrett it was whatever do

whatever it takes to make the customer

happy and shut up about it that's that

was our value do what whatever we need

to do to make the customer happy use

whatever software they want to use or

not want to use paper they want to use

work as many hours as you want to work

to get meet the deadlines the unre

estate deadlines and as long as the

client's happy that's our value that is

what I feel our value was for my entire

career at GW up until the point where we

defined our values and I know that

sounds harsh and terrible but that's

what it was so what is terrible about

that because most CPA firms would say

customer satisfaction or customer

service is our value so talk about the

downside of that unfortunately that's a

detriment to our people I mean that's

the unrealistic hours that's the

unnecessary stress that's the deadlines

or we keep promising that we'll do

everything for everybody at at any cost

it's caused people health problems

mental stability I'm talking myself

included um it's called sacrificing time

with family time you you can't get back

um because you it's almost like

retreated the work that we do not that

the work we do is not important it is

important work um but it's not that it's

not so important that someone's life's

at stake here and that's how we've

treated it my entire career for sure do

whatever it takes to get it done no

matter matter the sacrifice I have

sacrificed so much time away from my

family um over my career and now it's

easier for me and maybe because I'm

older and I'm looking back and I'm just

like wow where is the time gone I always

feel like I'd make up this time later

you know later in life and unfortunately

we've seen people even on our team die

and not even have the opportunity to

make up that time because they thought

oh I'll just get to the next year I'll

just do this and keep doing this or

whatever because whatever the client

wants is the most important but you know

what if you take care of your people and

I know I think Simon snack has said that

too so many people said so many great

people have said this but if you take

care of your people they will take care

of your customers they will do that and

they will go above and beyond but we

can't have these

unrealistic expectations we cannot do

this because as you know

Barrett I have done this and I can't

keep someone on to take my place because

they see the

unrealistic time that I put on myself to

do this job and it and I don't need to

do this and I'm don't want to do this

but unfortunately by shifting making the

team's life better I really haven't

figured out how to make our lives better

yet and I think it's more people more

Innovation more automation stuff like

that for sure to do that but but that's

step one I think getting the team to the

right hours and and and the right

deadlines and the right Str stress level

balance whatever that is and eventually

getting that right is going to bring us

the right

customers and then allow us to

concentrate or we need to concentrate

and also again work Less hours but we're

going to be providing more value so you

know it's not about the time and the

hours it's about the value and then what

we're charging for that value so you can

have a million hours and it doesn't

really mean anything that's that's the

sad thing let's talk about intrinsic and

extrinsic motivation a little bit here

because one of the things I try to

convey in this podcast and one of the

things that drives me crazy about

YouTube entrepreneurship is how easy it

is to just go out and buy a business and

get passive income for the rest of your

life on the other side you're talking

about hours and sacrifice and all of

this um just it's it's a slog it's it's

a struggle there's never ending piles of

work to be done

and that's one of the things I think in

our profession people have issues with

is tax season ends and it's like tax

season's right around the corner again

so yeah and tax season's

coming so what is it about this

profession and you can feel free to jump

into volunteering here or wherever you

want to take it what is it about the

cyclical nature of our

business that in spite of that or maybe

because of that has kept you so engaged

for the long term

yeah you know I've had this vision for

GW of you know working normal hours 40

hours a week I mean this was a dream big

dream

um and I really I first thought that may

never happen until you came along I'm

going to give you some Kudos here

because um I was really struggling to

figure out how are we going to get this

done if I don't if you don't have

another person another champion has the

same vision as you it's hard to change

things by yourself it really is so I'm

not going to lie so so when you came

along and things started to move faster

because I had another person um with the

same vision and jumping in and getting

things done and innovating stuff I was

like oh my gosh we could actually really

get to this we start having these

conversations we can get to it so for me

I've always wanted to make public

accounting better it's a great career

like it's a great career and that you

could you could financially support

yourself and your family and you help

businesses you know support change

people's lives financially by just you

know having your own business and having

savings and retirement and people having

their kids be able to go to college for

the first time things like that so you

really do impact people's lives so that

that motivated me about this profession

I always wanted to be a CPA one first

for myself it sounds selfish but then

for people to help people I really

became a CPA to help myself be

financially literate and then to help

other women other people become literate

and be able to you know support

themselves and things like that so then

I started when I started mentoring um

other professionals that all that were

working in public accounting and Private

Industry or whatever and I started to

realize accounting everywhere is like

this it's not just public accounting

that has this grind of hours and

deadlines and things like that it's

everyone in this profession that does

accounting work is having this problem

so I thought oh okay well if I'm going

to say I'm going to change

accting I have to change GW like I can't

just say County needs to change I have

to show it's possible so and I know I've

been able to show so many things are

possible in my life so I'm like if I

could show GW is can change we can work

40 hours a week we can have a great life

and do accounting work and and tax work

and you know succession planning work

can do all that work and make our

clients lives better and and have true

value and true relationships if I could

do that then I've done what I've always

done be the first to do it and then

gradually move people along the pathway

like it's no different than me switching

from paper to paperless it's a bigger

project for sure but I'm like okay well

I gotta I'm staying here I'm

staying making sure that GW gets the

point that it is going to be that way

and then I can go around and tell

everybody else he look we did it we did

it you can do it we did it you did it

and um and then also to show younger

people who are going into businesses or

starting their own businesses that they

can do the same thing because so many of

them go out there young charge lower

rates for their value work a ton of

hours they they start the same cycle

that we started like they start at the

same place as opposed to saying I am

Savvy I know technology I'm going to

innovate this these are the systems I'm

going to use for my clients I'm not

going to use their systems or their

crappy solver that they want to use if

they want to work with me they're going

to use this software and then I'm going

to be able to scale this and really have

a valuable relationship with my

clients and that's the problem is I

think we keep doing the same thing over

and over and over again and I think just

speaking personally here I think that's

the power of the story of what you've

done at GW what we've done at GW is

you're able to speak to somebody who say

Well it can't be done because our firm's

30 years old and you're like well our

firm's 80 years old so scratch that

excuse yeah well it can't be done

because we have too few people well we

only have 15 people so scratch that

excuse or it can't be done because we we

have a 100 people well we've got 15 so

start with 15 within your company all

the

excuses we're making it happen without

getting rid of taxis and without walking

away from Public public accounting

entirely so showing that it can be done

stop making up excuses or stop pointing

to reasons it can't be um and just work

through them I think is what is what

you're doing am I you're right correct

in that assessment you are 100% correct

yeah I so you can speak to the big firms

you can speak to the small firms you can

speak to the old firms you can speak to

the new firms um and say we've done it

and that was the one great thing I think

also about I we started using that in

2018 on the audit side this because when

I go to talk to people they're like oh

you're at a big firm so that's where

you're using it and I'll be like uh we

have 15 people at our firm so stop using

that excuse that you can't use it so

yeah so it's like oh what yeah so

totally so what we're everything we're

doing everybody can do I mean this is

It's I'm not saying it's not hard work

it's hard work but you just have to

bring your team into the conversation so

that's a quick hour we're already to the

end of our know that flew by uh before

we jump into the lightning round was

there anything you wanted to add or

anything I didn't ask about uh that you

wanted to add here before we go to the

yeah you know mentoring is really

important to me you know because giving

back to the profession and I for me it

really was not having a mentor you know

the macpa was my mentoring Association

and the the programs that they have are

kind of like my mentor but there I had

no mentors so I wanted to give back and

actually um help others realize their

potential sometimes you just need one

person to believe in you to say you can

do it like you can do it like there's

nothing you can't do and I I truly

believe that so it just takes one person

to tell you you can or maybe give you an

idea or show you the pathway

but those in succession planning you

know I never thought mentoring would be

part of my succession plan because I

found you through mentoring and you are

my succession plan we've hired employees

through that were past mentees not

intentionally just down the road that

happened or whatever but I think it's

because the fact that we show that we

care so much about this profession and

that we're

involved just shows people that we've

worked with that we care and not only

about GW and the people at GW but the

people in this profession so it's it's

very important to give back and you

never know what that next Mentor mentee

relationship might bring for you even as

a business owner like getting involved

with your associations or trade

associations in your business area you

might be surprised who you run into and

you may not have that person internally

who wants to take over your business you

know and run with it or internally run

with a new idea or innovation but you

might meet someone on the outside has

some pretty great ideas or wants to join

your team so I just want to make sure

that you're you're listeners are open to

the idea of giving back but mentoring

isn't always about giving advice it's

also about listening and I I have really

learned a lot from my mentees um

probably more than I've given them I

think but um it's a great opportunity to

broaden your Horizon and broaden your

network of the people you keep in your

back pocket for your future succession

planning talk to the hesitation as you

have to me of I don't have anything

worth following why would anybody want

to why would anybody want to listen to

me why should I speak in anybody's life

this there's nothing here worth

emulating talk to that hesitation right

now in the role of

mentoring you know so that's funny you

say that very and I always feel like for

me I used to think the same thing but

we're doing stuff that people are not

even talking about yet so when you and I

were having that conversation about

about you being a mentor if I just think

about your journey and where you are and

also how you got here is really

impressive like your experiences can

definitely impact others ones who want

to be Outsource CFOs who wants you want

to have their own firms maybe someone

who is on their own and wants to come

join a team or whatever why would you do

that kind of thing but not only that

what we have done in the last let's say

five years is transformational and there

are so many businesses and so many

people that want to do that that your

experience in doing that and how we got

there

um is really Priceless and just think

about what we're doing at chat gbt um

people aren't doing this stuff yet there

are no Firs giving away Chad TBT models

and nobody's doing this stuff so like

you just sharing that story about what

we've done I know when I share my sap

one about using chb2 like what are you

talking about how is that even possible

so just even sharing that one experience

or the new tax for software we use that

has AI gener I built into it is is

transformative for people in firms and

people in businesses so everyone has

something to give and it's not talking

about yourself like I GS don't like

talking about I don't like talking about

myself so that's one thing about this

whole blog that's probably I took so

long for us to get to this point a year

to get here but um but everybody has a

story and everybody's story has an

impact on somebody else no matter how

little or how minute you might think

that impact is it's still an

it's hard without the context anybody

looking from the outside in yeah to see

how far you've come in your business but

mentoring also provides a little bit of

that context yeah I've only solved one

thing in the past three years of my

business and it just feels like the the

mountain of stuff still to solve is so

insurmountable but you've solved that

one thing there's somebody out there

that needs you to show them or to to

coach them through solving that one

thing yeah and it like I said as long as

you're moving forward you solving one

problem at a time that's great if you're

not changing anything then you're

falling behind awesome all right

anything else that you want to add

before we jump into the lightning round

no this is great be thanks for it's

always great talking with you for sure

and um I'm super excited about where

we're going and gcpa and what it's going

to look like I mean seven years from now

I can't even imagine what it's going to

look like because it's changing so fast

every every day um it's super I'm super

excited yeah you you think it's taken us

a long time to get to the point of

recording this episode but I knew you

were going to be my season two opener

see there you

go all right uh let's jump into the

lightning round then okay uh all right

coffee or tea and how do you like it

prepared I like hot tea with cream and

sugar pie or cake and do you have a

specific favorite and I'm going to say

neither because I like brownies and

they're neither of those right they're

not pie or cake all right season two is

breaking the lightning round I'm

sorry um I think we've already heard

some of it but what what's a common

belief among entrepreneurs that you

would want to challenge oh it definitely

goes back to defining what success means

you know what does that really mean um

it really should be something

sustainable and something that supports

values and something that you're proud

proud to be part of I think as opposed

to just just building something fast and

grow your Revenue fast and selling it or

whatever that is I you just really need

to Define what success is for yourself

uh what is your favorite holiday and why

you know it's Halloween and it's not

because it's my

birthday it's it's just because we get

to dress up and it's candy like who who

can how can that not be someone's

favorite Halloween holiday so that

Halloween has always been my favorite do

you consider yourself a morning person

or a night person and do you have a

favorite routine that's so funny my

husband would say I'm a 24-hour day

person but for the first 40 years of my

life I was a morning person believe it

or not um but now I would say I'm a

night

person uh a favorite

routine I was thinking about that I

would say a favorite routine for me

really is just getting up in the morning

drinking my hot tea with cream and sugar

I really look forward to that sounds

crazy and then I spent a little time

with my dog so okay what about a night

routine or a night routine oh is at this

time it would be watching um Hallmark

Christmas movies on the couch with my

dog um this is a weird question what is

one thing that you would want your

successor to remember you for and why oh

my okay one thing I would

say the one thing I would want you to

remember is that I did everything I said

I was going to do it's to that and I

left GW in a better place than it was

when you got there done all

right I'm already done

okay so uh what does that mean you you

did everything that you said you were

gonna do meaning um making GW everything

about GW a place where

um I don't want to say future proofing

but giving you the foundation so that

your future with um bringing Talent

making g whatever you want it is is not

a hard journey it's still going to be a

journey and it's still going to be you

know have its ups and downs or whatever

but the foundation is strong um and that

we're doing the right things the culture

is right and you're going to just have

people knocking at your door all the

time whether it's clients knocking at

your door or on your website I should

say and um and Team new team members

coming along you're never going to have

a hard time finding somebody to be an

employee at GW uh where are you finding

creativity right now right now um

professionally or

personally just whatever gets you

excited oh I've been making a ton of

flowers and Christmas treat so flowers

have been really getting me excited

lately I've never had so much time to

actually get this done during the

holiday so that's kind of nice yeah

um what do you have coming up in the

next year that's got you really excited

oh my gosh you know I would

say our

workflow software change I'm super

excited about but I'm really excited

about our next foresight Fridays with

gener generative AI with chat TBT

because I cannot wait to see what people

do with that because I don't think they

still really can grasp the capabilities

but I hope during those foresight

Fridays this year they'll be able to use

that and solve problems that we didn't

even know we had that's what I'm hoping

so I'm excited about that so this being

a podcast and I'm interviewing other

people I've never talked about foresight

Friday

so I don't talk about myself with the

guests so what is for by Friday Sam well

we we came up with this idea last year

to give our team members um eight

Fridays where they could spend half the

day learning a new software a new

reading a book a a new technique a new

process whatever it was something that

they had not been exposed to they could

spend four hours doing that and then

they get four hours of pay time off what

we found was that we were able to solve

problems that we've been trying to solve

for like years that you know we couldn't

solve because we never never dedicated

the time so people were actually coming

up with Innovative software they were

coming up with ways to change how we do

stuff they were solving problems it

really was mind-blowing to me so that

was just the first year and I think it

took them a good two four side Fridays

to really understand what they were

doing and act to think about how things

could be different so now this year I

think it'll be the second year so I

think with that and chat TBT Bots they

have uh they're super excited about

using those so I think once they get

that education on how that really works

they're just going to change they're

going to seriously change what we do and

and come up with ideas for our our

clients as well um all right this brings

us to the end of the show so how can

people find you

Sam how can uh LinkedIn is usually the

easiest way to find me for sure um but

they can just reach out to you Barrett

you don't have a do you have a YouTube

channel or yeah know you have one I

don't have

one awesome well thank you so much Sam

this has been exactly what I hoped it

would be and it ended up being too short

so we'll probably have to do another one

of these in the future all right happy

so much for being a guest you're welcome

you've been listening to the art of

succession podcast with your host

Barrett young twice a month will'll

bring you interviews sharing the

successes and challenges from business

owners with their own succession Stories

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