The Art of Succession

hey I like this accounting stuff you

know up making a 98 in the class you

know highest grade and um and that that

professor and my Grandad really mentored

me into uh the CPA route was he going

over goals or like next you need to work

on this or so that was you going out and

self- teing and and meeting with peers

and coming up with quarterly and annual

goals and stuff like that that autonomy

and that trust was just looking back was

unbelievable from his part because I

know most other CPA firms would not have

made the big changes that I made and

people like me would have left what

unique challenges might we face when we

buy into a company founded by a

grandparent what can we learn from our

predecessor while also balancing our

desire to make something our own as we

start to consider and maybe author for

the first time our core values how do we

both show continuity and Clarity to

those existing clients my name is Barrett

Young and this is the art of succession

podcast my guest today is Curtis

Hardwick and today we're going to hear

about a journey that started 10 years

ago as Curtis took over his

grandfather's CPA firm in in Georgia

Curtis welcome to the artist succession

thanks for having me Barrett so um

you're on here because you took over

your grandfather's CPA firm and we're

going to get into that you're in Georgia

so just give me a little bit of

background about uh about yourself and

you know uh stepping into your

grandfather's firm before we jump into

that sure so yeah he started the firm in

74 with his brother so they were a

partnership they actually owned a uh

Western Sizzlin if you've ever heard of

that this used to be an old Steakhouse

uh restaurant they owned it together

they were both CPAs and started a CPA

firm and had was running the restaurant

at the same time um and so of course I

went around in 74 but uh they ended up

breaking up their partnership in 95 and

there's a long story behind all that but

um we

I took over and started working or I

started working with him in 2010 while

still in college um he ran up basically

1040 tax firm uh had some monthly

clients but certainly was not uh in the

business advisory Focus that I am now um

so I started working with him while I

was in school I passed CPA exam in 2015

and then we started talking through his

transition so he's almost exactly 50

years older than me um so it is an

interesting case study in a millennial

taking over a baby boomer um generation

um and uh and so we started uh talking

through what it looked like for me to

take over and what I wanted with the

firm um and so I don't know if you want

to get into that that plan now or if you

want to just hear some more background

on be taking over but yeah we'll get in

we'll get into that um I mean so your

grandfather was preparing taxes your

entire life you've known him as a tax

preper and a CPA right CPA did I catch

that correctly yeah yeah he is y okay so

I mean you were not scared away from

that um seeing somebody in the family in

that profession did it I mean did you go

to college saying I want to do what your

grandfather does that's a good question

um I actually wanted to go to college to

be a civil engineer um and so I started

off in school and there was a bridge

program close to us uh to go from a

community college to Georgia Tech um and

funny enough you just had to take c one

and two this sounds so simple but you

know had to take c one and two and then

two uh

sciences and then they would accept you

in the tech and you could go into the

civil engineering program uh I took

calculus one and I made my first D ever

in my life and so I said you know what I

don't know if engineering's for me

because I got to take three more of

these uh I ended up going back and

making a b but it's uh but funny enough

he said so I knew that he was a CPA had

no idea what that was I just knew that

he did some tax returns because he used

to do mine back in high school um and

you know I got talking to him one day

and he said you know obviously the

engineering route is not where you need

to go because uh because of the math

skills which is which is funny because

accountants equally they always think

you're good at math not calculus algebra

yeah yeah um fifth grade fifth grade I

am awesome yeah do some add you know add

and subtract and multiply and divide um

but so he was like why don't you go you

know stay at the community college do a

couple years there get a associates

degree in business and then you know

transfer out and see what you want to do

so I went through um I took I guess in

the first year if you're doing a

business degree you have to get an

accounting I have to take accounting one

and two to get the associates so I took

financial accounting

uh my professor oddly enough was an ex

ex- Wall Street Banker that had he had

retired from Wall Street had moved down

because he met his wife in this small

little town with the with the uh

Community College and started teaching

and um he really open my eyes to

financial accounting and um and really

kind of set me on the course to the CPA

so it's was about that time when I

started working with him in 20 I guess

it was 2010 yeah uh

and you know I said hey I like this

accounting stuff end up making a 98 in

the class you know highest grade and um

and that that professor and my granddad

really mentored me into uh the CPA route

and pop at that time was like once don't

you get your CPA then we'll see what you

go if you want to go move somewhere else

and work in a different firm great but I

I liked the small town small businesses

that we were working with at that time

uh and all the relationships he had

built in this in this area so um along

with th those help I you know went to

Georgia State and to Georgia College get

my masters and then CPA license okay and

and so did the idea of owning a firm

come along in the process of doing the

accounting degree in CPA or is that like

always you wanted to run a business even

when you want to be a civil engineer you

know you know it's funny I so we have an

entrepreneurial background in my in my

fa of course my granddad owned his own

firm since the 70s my Dad ran a mobile

car washing company uh for about 10

years um actually about 12 years and

then my aunt has a restaurant and so you

know in in the Hardwick side of our of

our uh of Our Lives they've all been

entrepreneurs they've all been ones that

wanted to step out and do different

things and funny enough I don't I didn't

think about firm running until we

started talking about

2015 um about taking this over it was

never a big dream I just it as I was

telling some people last week I was in

Greenville for a conference um a small

group cop which for a tribal community

and um they're all like you know we

started off with zero clients and went

off from there and I said you know pop

gave me so much autonomy when we were uh

when I was here that he's like if you

got an idea run with it he kind of

fostered that entrepreneurial spirit and

it's interesting in that um because I

know one of the questions you had for me

in the pre-work is like what um what

made you buy or like continue on the

firm versus going out and buying or

starting your own and it kind of fell in

my lap Barett just say it really did and

I loved it and I loved again the

autonomy that he gave me um to allow me

to see my vision and start building what

I wanted uh even while I was in here

running it working with them awesome so

yeah when you started working with pop

in 2010 it wasn't like come into my firm

you'll buy this thing someday he was

just giving you an opportunity to gain

some experience go wherever you needed

to go but eventually it just it morphed

into that Jason kind of said the same

thing on a previous episode of working

for his dad gave him just so much

freedom to try stuff and like a little

you know a safety net or just know it's

not going to blow up and other areas of

the business are covered so I I really

like that aspect about this you didn't

find that restrictive though how I mean

let's get into that 50 years difference

probably he thought some of the things

were way out of left field yeah I love

the switch when we because we were using

uh when I first got here he had a

bookkeeper that was working so it's a

small firm there's only four of us here

at at this point um and um but he had a

bookkeeper in here that was so you know

Green sheets we're going to we're going

to document all the journal ENT actually

I don't think she made the journal

entries I think she handed just wrote

them down and then and then gave them to

him to to process or to me at that point

was I was becoming more senior um and uh

and so it was very old school uh we were

using accounting CS which is I think

it's thomp Thompson W's product it is um

see I don't even know now it's it's

funny we' moved so past that but I said

pop let's let's get a few let's get a

few few people on quick books cuz this

accounting CS like it's not user

friendly like you know I want clients to

be able to pull up financials when they

need them and all this kind of stuff so

I switched all of our clients to Quick

desktop and he's like well you know if

that's what you're that's what you're

wanting to do you know you're taking

care of the monthly accounting you know

you make the switch uh and then it

quickly morphed to this was when quicks

on line was starting up and I was like

pop we've got to get in the cloud like

all the training everything we're doing

is all mov into the cloud and so I think

that hit that leeway at that point in

time in my career to be able to say

we're just going to make a jump and I'm

going to figure it out and it's not

going to blow anything up um really gave

me a lot of confidence as an

entrepreneur to be able to say I can

take the next step and it's fine like

it's going to work out I'm gonna figure

it out where I think as you said

restrictive in I mean there was

definitely push back when I was talking

about doing this I joke and my wife will

attest to this she'll say pops answer is

always no on the on the onset okay but

which which I think there's a lot of

wisdom in that um you know it's it's

until I can prove to him and that trust

finally was was uh and I think there is

a lot of trust that comes in the

relationship the Granddad and grandson

that is just

implicit um at least for our our in our

case you know maybe that's not like that

in All Families but um there is his

answer was always no and then when I

started explaining it little by little

it finally turned into okay you can do

this as long as you it's you're a baby

and that gives you a lot of confidence

as a early as a as a young accountant

okay were you also experimenting with

selling services at this time or was it

all converting dads

existing yeah good good question so

that's that's really been like the last

three years has been the transition of

of me taking the reign of selling um and

so that's that was another fight

in hey Pop I'm about to increase these

prices by 25% uh as far as you know

across the board because we need more

Revenue we need more profitability uh

and you know he was of that mindset well

if it there's nothing if it's not broken

don't fix it and I just had such a

vision of like I want to have less

clients I want to be able to have deeper

relationships with the clients were

serving that I've got a CH a higher

price point and so that's been it's

probably been more of a five-year

Journey Journey now now I think started

about

2019 until now okay and um and so um you

know I kind of took over the reings in

2019 to where he said you know you can

start making those those decisions as

far as selling so does that answer your

question it does yeah I wanted to see if

that was something you had already

stepped into before deciding to buy into

the firm or if that was something you

still had to wait to test it's and that

goes back to some his he has always been

hourly minded even even now even when I

price things for us he's still well how

many hours did that take

versus you know uh and I'm like it

doesn't matter we're pricing on value

here I've explained this concept a lot

but it it did take me and he gave me the

leeway I mean we we did have some

clients leave with those price increases

that had been longterm clients with them

um that he was like is you're what's

your building and giving you the Reigns

to be able to build what you want and so

that autonomy and that trust was

just looking back was unbelievable from

his part because I know most other CPA

firms would not have made the big

changes that I made and people like me

would have left so you know that I'm

certainly in that Visionary category

where I want to I have I have a vision

of where we're going um and can't get

there fast enough and we can't get there

fast enough but there was a good balance

with us too because he was able to say

nah or take it slow on that um but I

never I felt hampered in some ways but

looking back on the long term he really

didn't H there a lot of progress that I

was trying to make uh in gr schem of

things and those small little battles

that you have you feel like you've lost

them but overall we we've moved in the

right direction gotcha okay so you're

still in the Pro I mean Pop's still

working then you know 10 years into this

transfer technically he's he's he

retired May 1st okay technically now he

wants to maintain an office because he's

he just turned 84 in

April um and going back to what you said

before kind of in the beginning of the

conversation was um you know he wasn't

pushing to for me to just take it over

because I'm ready to retire I'm ready to

stop doing this he had such a good

such wisdom in the way that he built his

practice he built it exactly how he

wanted it to be to where he didn't burn

himself out uh which is about the

opposite of what most accounting firms

are all you hear is we're burned out all

the time he intentionally structured the

type of work you wanted to do and the

clients that you served now he wasn't

pricing right he certainly wasn't

pricing right but he but he built it to

where it was a sustainable that he was

able to do it you know till he's 84

years old which I commend him

for so let's go to that first those

first couple conversations you've been

working there for four or five years

yeah um obviously that trust that you

talked about was there because five

years from starting to work somewhere to

you're gonna buy this place is is pretty

fast in our profession very much so yeah

very much so um I mean how did that how

did those conversations start was it

we're going to be part ERS or did he

have a timeline on the horizon what was

what was that look like well he

certainly I still I still don't you know

he told he said if I would not have come

in he probably retired at 75 like right

right as we you know he said sold the

firm and gotten outs I don't even know

about selling it he just like I'm gonna

be gone okay um and I think that he

intentionally mentored me in that

direction whether it was explicit or you

know implicit at that time um but the

conversations were

around um and he's a very quiet guy so

it's hard to I have to sit down and be

like all right we're going to talk about

a difficult conversation like like come

to you with this uh and and it was it

was around the fact that he's wanting to

slow down he obviously sees that I have

an entrepreneurial Spirit behind me

that's that's moving things forward so

it was like

2014 2015 we started having a

conversation around what does the value

of the practice look like and where how

can we figure out a buyout strategy so

that I'm well I'm compensated and also

to move you in that position so it was

it was kind of a I've got to have some

clarity pop for me to stay here and to

because I can't just keep going year

after

year and uh and it'll work out like it's

supposed to uh I needed some clarity

around the relationship so those those

were some conversation we had in late

2014 and then 2015 is when we got to the

nuts B of the buy stuff okay so you had

I mean at this time you had not yet

brought in your own clients you were

still pushing against the pricing and

everything so you really had to do

evaluation on clients that you didn't

want to keep long term but I mean they

were they were enough to give you a

foundation to yeah to grow I assume the

mix at that time was not what you wanted

it you didn't want to just keep

replicating that at a high price so so

yeah so 1040 heavy um monthly recurring

Revenue was nothing uh it was it was all

tax SE season Revenue um and I I I saw I

foresaw the push that people need us to

keep things um accurate as we go along

that was that was the first thing and

then as I as I grew and matured in my in

my journey it's like yeah but they also

need these things they need cash flow

tools they need uh you to be there just

to talk business with them uh it's not

one of those things because he was very

much like oh here's the financials call

me if you need me uh and I was just like

that's not how I operate at all like I

want to have a real conversation around

what the numbers mean um so anyway that

that was part of what the push was I was

like I'm ready to be done with 1040s uh

probably in 2015 2016 like I'm just

tired of doing them and I'm still doing

them

now but which is wisdom Again part of

his because I'm I'm a let's burn the and

and cut the ties with the ship and let's

let's go um and it it really did from a

from a revenue perspective and from a

just

sustainability uh Jason you know talking

about Jason wmer earlier he's very much

I think he actually burned the ships um

and his his dad didn't quite let him

didn't tamper him like my granddad did

but uh we um so anyway that's what the

conversations were about and at that

time we were we were Val he was

basically like 1% of gr one times gr

receipts whatever we took in last year

as a starting point let's go from there

okay and then we'll structure the bout

over five years um

so yeah I mean it was pretty

straightforward as far as that concern

he he kind of gave me a deal because he

knew that the clients probably were not

as valuable with him not being there

eventually so it gave me a good

foundation okay I mean yeah over five

years that's not terrible

um you would expect that most of them

would still be there at the end of those

5 years so you're already making making

money off your buyout in that case

absolutely yeah I mean Jason one of the

first talks I ever heard from Jason was

I I don't remember if it was AI CPA

American Institute of CPA or what or

just a YouTube video or something but

he's like you need to fire half your

clients and raise prices on the other

half of them so that's that's what a lot

of us think of when we think of Jason

and I and I probably took that advice as

like as like the gold standard

yeah and I'm glad I didn't in a way you

know looking back I'm glad I didn't

because I I feel like I could have

tanked it if I just if I was that way

and I certainly learned a lot of

patience and wisdom in that in that

time that

I yeah that's one of the things Jason's

shared just been for me as an influence

on long-term Vision um and I think at

that time he was very shortterm and

Julie wasn't in the picture either um

that's for another episode that's

another but yeah I mean you saw fiveyear

buyou one times annual

revenue gives you a foundation to move

forward with so I mean on the one hand

it's it's a fair buyout I assume you

guys both agreed to it to respect what

pop had done and what he had built and

take care of him as he you know is able

to step out of that um but it's not like

you overpaid either where you're still

paying on that 10 years later or

anything like that or if all those

clients did leave you're you know stuck

so well and and we and we so the target

retirement so if we did this was in

2015 um starting in 2016 so if he would

have and he still you know he still

worked till this tax season so I mean

technically the the original date was he

was going to retire at 80 okay um so at

the end of those 5 years yeah he was

going to be done yeah okay and uh but

he's he's what as as he tells me and you

know I do have some rub with this

sometimes but I I love the man so much

that I'm not gonna be like you're done

um that uh you know he said as long as

this is as long as I'm still having fun

I want to keep doing it and I think we

got to this point this year where he's

like this a this I'm not having fun know

I want to go do other things and so I'm

surprised Co wasn't that year for him

you oh yeah yeah I am too but we yeah

and the the tech especially with the

buyout being done at that point yeah no

he he wanted to keep doing tax returns

okay now he didn't do any PPP work or

ertc work that was all me but uh he did

his 1040s and um so anyway that's what

that's where we were okay so at the end

of those five years you said you took

over officially leading in 2019 then it

was 202 I would say 2019 was a

transitionary year where he was handing

more responsibility over to me okay as

far as internal things the it I didn't

take over officially until January 1st

of 2020 gotcha and that's I mean you're

100% owner at that point yes okay and so

was it Year bye with pop I mean paid as

a consultant how how did how did that

work so yeah the last so from 21 or from

2020 through 23

he was just paidon as an employee um and

then based off production based off

production okay uh and then this past

year we it was truly a 5050 like I just

paid him a consulting fee for the or

like tax prep fee um before it was kind

of based on reasonable comp because we

had an idea where he was going to be

Revenue wise uh and I just paid him a

salary and then this this past year it

was it was truly 50% or for 24 um 50% of

production oh the work he did gotcha and

he was open to that you know he's like I

don't want to drain cash um I don't want

to drain C I want you to have a good

Nest Egg U to continue on and so um

probably wouldn't work with everybody

the way we did it um but again that

trust is there between us that you he's

he needed to be compensated for his for

what he was doing so okay

great

um so other than not having sold

anything in 2015 when you started this

how did talk a little bit about the

mentorship the benefit of him sticking

around for another 10 years other than

him pushing back on a little bit of

stuff I

mean he had employees in 2015 besides

you when you came in okay yeah he did I

mean you said he had a c bookkeeper um

yeah did he tell me just a little bit

about the benefit you gained from that

mentorship of here's how to handle

employees here's how to do the marketing

all that kind of stuff marketing was

Zero I've learned nothing from him about

marketing he didn't tell you how to

launch a YouTube channel and uh write

hooks on

Twitter absolutely nothing and you know

he comes from that time when they didn't

market like it was it was a I guess

professional ethics issue right yeah and

70s it was almost illegal in many states

to actually he said besides running when

you were opening your firm you could run

an ad when you're opening your firm then

after that it was a ethics issue so to

continue marketing which in in a lot of

cases I wish they would do that with

attorneys that would be wonderful for my

morning news

but um but anyway um so nothing on the

marketing side uh everything was organic

everything was refill based um and

so from the mentorship perspective you

have to think with 50 years of lead time

on me to of of um being one who has not

only run an accounting firm but a

restaurant has worked in all kinds of

different Industries uh as a private

accountant uh he did have he just has a

wealth of knowledge for whatever the

situation may hold and I I did joke

earlier about you know I kind of said

tug and cheek like it all look out like

it's supposed to but that is one of his

favorite phrases but I feel like his has

was one that I think about the most is

whenever you're going through a tough

situation or That season where it's like

oh I don't know if I want to keep doing

this or whatever he his thing is it

always work out like it's supposed to

and especially as 84 year old for

someone to say that at their time in

life it's it's it's amazing and also

just a consistent presence

in he's not one that has been overly

like let me help guide you in this way

but being a consistency on the back end

to say here's what I'm thinking and

again his answer is always going to be

no I don't think you should do that but

when you start get when he starts

getting the context around what you're

what you're talking about he has such a

good key Insight on on best practice or

how to handle this situation or um so

yeah it's it's been for him to stay on I

don't think I think I would have blown

up the firm if he would have truly just

handed over the Reigns because I would

have fired a bunch of people and

um I don't know maybe I'd be in a

different POS better position I don't

know but it's you know and I I feel like

I've honored him and and allowing him to

stay on and continue to be a part of our

journey U again I think that's probably

very unique in the family dynamics that

we're in um as I've heard from some

people that they feel like if they're

usually his father son or you know a

parent it's not usually a more direct

relationship more direct relationship

that they they will not like the

employees won't respect you until they

actually leave or you know and I I felt

like he did a really good job of

gracefully just handing over the range a

little bit over time so this worked out

for us okay I mean I know you to be a

pretty driven and collaborative

individual did you I mean was he going

over goals or like next you need to work

on this or so that was you going out and

self- teing and and meeting with years

and and coming up with quarterly and

annual goals and stuff like that and

then you could run them by him it sounds

like yeah but it wasn't like he would

sit down and say okay next we need to

focus on your ability to do this

strategy strategy is is not because he I

think he started this in this profession

because it was steady money he enjoyed

the work but to have a drive of like hey

let let's let's take this somewhere else

it was I think it was more for I like

the work and I'm making a good living

which I can't fault him for it because

that's but there was no here's where

we're going this it was you know that's

probably the time in life too you know

that he was in when I I started y maybe

if he was 34 like me you know he

probably did have some more strategic

goals and and thoughts like that but um

you know yeah

it's it's been a it's been a looking

over it's been a pretty seamless

transition as far as goal setting and

I'm the one who's driving the ship okay

yeah I mean I've seen that just in I I

think I've known you probably six or

seven years so you hadn't even fully

taken over the Reigns yet but he's like

you want to go out and network and learn

from peers and get involved in in

organizations and stuff like that go for

it yeah I was going to say with like

thrival so you know that it's a that was

that was mine and I think it was

like 15 bucks on month or something like

that to join that Community when I did

it may have been less than that and I

was like I don't know if we can afford

that that is like way too much you know

and I brought it up to him and he was

like you know if you want to if you

think this is a good idea and I know

it's a lot of money um and I that's yeah

it was all me jumping off and trying to

networ that at the time it probably the

annual conference wasn't worth CPE so

he's like why would you

travel for non CPE

okay it's it's funny I look back at that

now and I'm like if I could just join a

group that I've gotten so much out of

for 150 bugs a month or whatever it was

like you just it's amazing yeah I'm

still

UND yep okay

um

so let's talk about you know that was

all the past and what Popp had built and

what you've taken over I

mean since 2020 what are some of the big

shifts that other than pricing obviously

that have that you've gone through you

guys are still not still just a 1040

practice I know that much so yeah yeah

so so this has been more of like the

last three years um certainly doing

pricing increases was a was a painful

exercise uh but the we've also just

tried to we we found out the ideal

client um profile for who we want to

serve and it only been looking and we're

still not great in marketing you know

working with PF right now to to Rebrand

and LGE and we can talk about that some

GE a little bit but

um most of it has been figuring out what

is a profitable F and which one is not

even if we have 30 plus years of

relationship with them are they still

profitable or they still worth worth

serving uh and that's been that's been

the hardest like rub that we've had over

the last couple years uh three years uh

with me saying we we don't need to keep

doing this for $200 a year I know it

takes you an hour and you have such a

good relationship with them but that's

not who we want to serve so we have been

uh I have been internally

um re-evaluating all relationships so uh

I think it was about three years ago I

did go through a client inventory client

grading Matrix

which I'm happy to share with anybody

that is looking to do that in

Professional Service uh companies that

you have ongoing relationship with

because that opens your eyes to grading

clients a through F and so it's been

about a threeyear journey last 18 months

we've gotten rid of all the see and

Below um from a revenue perspective uh

ped factor I don't know if we can cuss

on this podcast or not

but Peta you know what that means um

that's fine the yeah uh the you know

they meet our core values are they you

know easy easy to communicate with

there's about seven different things

that wow have gone into that that

greeting that I came up with and with

some collaboration on his clients we

were able to say you know this one's

just not worth doing anym um as I say uh

to Taylor who's my right hand all the

time if I have an avert like if I see

their name pop up on the phone or email

and I go oh oh I don't want to deal with

this they are they are on the chopping

block and so funny enough you were

talking about Jason earlier saying like

fire half your clients and double your

prices that's really the journey we've

been on over the last three years was

figuring out exactly who needs to be on

the ship with us pricing them correctly

uh and he had some Legacy clients that

have naturally come into the fold uh

going through different growth

transitions um have been open because

you know we have that he's been I mean

he's been working with a newspaper that

I work work with now since like the

80s and I have gradually doubled their

price without them even realizing it you

of course adding services and stuff but

you know that was one of the ones before

he's like there's no way we can increase

prices on on them like that's just not

yeah I just don't rock the ship and as I

had conversations with them and get

offer more services we've more than

doubled their price all you know the

last three years

um yeah I think there's this idea of a

legacy client is automatically just

going to be somebody that's terrible

that you need to fire but I mean our top

two to three clients have been with us

for over 40 years and they're also the

most willing like you said the trust is

there yeah when we say we want to try

this with you they're like okay yep

where where do I sign yeah it's kind of

it's awesome because in a sense it's

another kind of relationship like you

had with your grandfather of this is

kind of a safety net like obviously I

don't want to completely enrage them but

yeah they're not going to blow up

because you rais their tax return by

double in your case or you try something

and it didn't work out they're just like

okay well you'll fix it forward so and

so part of that has been as I mentioned

earlier like core value definition we

finally we we I I did that exercise

probably like four years ago you know

when you're going through the covid um

crisis and thinking about what you like

I don't know when you have more time to

think about these things do I really

want to be doing this next year no I did

I did I love what I do I don't want made

it sound like that but like PF has

helped me the marketing agency has

helped me to define those further but

getting down to an exercise of like what

what are the what is the culture and the

core values of our firm that that are

partly pop partly month because I want

to take the good things of what he

what he gave to me and incorporate those

into our our culture and our core values

and um just going through that exercise

helped me to be able to say this isn't

the right client this is not Bo because

um and there's a myriad of reasons for

that but I would say for anybody that's

moving in a family company involved you

know because we when I talk about core

values he's or I talked about marketing

or branding or something like that when

he's like oh that's just a logo and it's

and it's like no there's so much more to

that and I involved him some in that

process um in the transition for me

defining those things and he was like oh

yeah yeah yeah real connection that

makes sense yeah safety yeah okay like

that's the things that he had had in his

in his mind before but when you start

getting him on paper it just helps to uh

take the gray out of certain

relationships yeah so I mean do you do

you know your core values do you have

them memorized have they been finalized

on so what are they uh real connection

trust and

safety so um which you know trust is

baked into what we do anyway um and so I

call that one the Cornerstone of how we

should so as soon as we start feeling

some untrust in a relationship we either

need to bring them closer to us to be

able to guide them in the right

direction or to say I shouldn't say safe

face but TR trust has to be there so

that's a Cornerstone uh safety is of

course a sense of I'm not I never want

to be combative or type A in the way I

come across I want you to feel like you

can bring whatever into like I was

meeting with a client this morning and I

said how you doing he was like you know

I'm struggling and to have you don't

hear many entrepreneurs come in and say

I'm struggling to their CPA yeah um and

we were talking about some family issues

and how I can maybe help in a certain

area and I feel like that is that is

living out our core values with some

someone can come in with vulnerability

in a safe space uh and then real

connection for us is uh I don't want you

to just drop off tax information at the

end of the year and say get it done and

we won't talk I try to touch base and

talk to or at least record a video for

every return that I do and also our

ideal client is an a monthly uh

connective relationship meaning meeting

um generally meetings but at least a

video a real connection with me

um and so PF helped me to kind of bring

those into Focus um and they they've

helped guide me in a lot of with

students yeah I I think one of the

challenges of taking over an existing

firm is you have your own core values

you have your own preferences maybe even

your own ideal client what that would

look

like but we can't just come into a firm

and be like well I'm I'm in charge now

so yeah

yeah so you were seeking

continuity of this is the firm there's a

purpose there's a reason we take over an

existing firm because there's something

there that's worth continuing right sure

absolutely um and I think a lot of at

least in our profession a lot of those

failures come in when somebody's

not not bought into or doesn't

understand the culture of the firm that

they're coming into yeah and so they

come in and they're like well these are

our core values now and it's like well

where'd those come from

your existing clients are going to be

there after the fiveyear buyout after

your your grandfather retires so they

need to feel like there's some

continuity so that's with and and you

know you said he didn't have those he

never would have wrote WR written those

down but they were in they were implied

or implicit in the the culture The Firm

so did you get in I mean did you get

input from

the team or from existing clients like

do these resonate do these sound correct

yeah oh yeah they're 100% correct I did

um not necessarily on the client side

but certainly on our team um that

they're they 100% of what we what we try

to live up to and we do so in our weekly

meetings we have just a weekly standup

meeting um and we try to do core value

call outs which I think has been really

helpful for what's that

so it's a um I have the core values on

this first thing we do on the agenda is

in the past week how have

people uh been living out our core

values it could be on our team or it

could be client generally as client like

how are they living on our core values

uh and give me specific examples and

then sometimes when we're in a really

complaining mood it's like how clients

haven't been living out our cor values

how can we bring them back and and I'll

even say specific examples of how we can

bring them back into real connection

with us uh they blew off a meeting that

is not real connection like that is not

that is not living out out our our core

value how can we make sure that doesn't

happen in the future it's really a

teaching moment it reminds us all of

what the uh nor values so it's pretty

good awesome uh working with PF now that

you've got the core values how has that

shaped the kind of client you're

bringing in in the future that's maybe

changed or is different than the clients

you brought in in the past now that

into those yeah I was going to say you

know every dollar was a good dollar um

and I was first trying to take on

clients if you had we joke if you had a

if you had a pulse pulse in a wallet in

a wallet you can work with those and

sometimes they don't even the wallet

doesn't even have to have money yeah

right that's right um and so it really

has so the the packages that I craft now

for clients is so much built on

us guiding the relationship and so we we

working with entrepreneurs that are

trying to break through the 2 to five

million ceiling that is that is our

ideal client uh right now uh it doesn't

it's kind of industry agnostic but I

don't do manufacturing uh or like high

inventory um but it has helped me to the

language that I use in presenting that

to those clients around we're not just

an accountant that does your tax return

or we're not just an accountant who

gives you financial statements is a

total reflection of that core value of

real connection because I don't feel

like just doing compliance work is

creating real real connection or trust I

mean yeah they may trust us that the

numbers are right but I want to have a

deeper understanding and level I want to

know what their kids names are and their

pets and what they have going on

personally and all that kind of stuff

creates that safety inside of us so that

I can I can know

contextually that you know their moms in

the nursing home

like we don't it's going to shade it's

yeah it's going to we don't need to

press them yeah I've told Taylor several

times like they've got this going on

just get done what you can and you know

move on because they need they need to

have this space and that safety that

they know we taking care of things on

the back end but we don't need to Crest

them in this time um and certainly like

I said trust is just baked in uh to what

we to what we do so does that answer

your question or it does rain can I mean

can you reveal anything else that you've

done with PF as far as the rebranding

goes and why you're not just staying

with the family name and everything like

that yeah that's a good question um well

so part of the process so I've gone

through with them um they call

accelerator which is a 12we kind of

intensive they have foundations which is

more of a oneon-one coaching and trying

to figure out where you want to go and

so that revealed a lot of this core

value stuff uh and then we moved into in

the fall time into naming and the brand

uh by itself and so the first thing I

told them we were talking about changing

the name was I don't want Hardwick to be

in it like

because I want to have something that is

sustainable and on its own um for the

long term I know the short term it's

still gonna be Curtis is going to be

Arcus you know it's what we're what

we're what we're going to be the name is

Arcus you said Arcus yeah Arcus CPA um

it's Latin for bridge and so it kind of

train trying to paint a picture of uh us

taking from client and Bridging the Gap

from point A to point B um and a lot of

that is in growth and consistency and

intentionality um and so you I can share

the share the uh new logo with you um

but we're looking to launch that in

September uh we'll be we're we'll launch

the website and all before but a true

Grand kickoff in September um but the

the big thing for me was I wanted some

that was memorable I wanted something

that was was

um like foundational to what we are I

think I use that word with them a lot

it's like I want want a name that is

foundational to our to our practice and

I wanted my name to be out of it so that

it could stand alone for me and so I

think they did a really good job with it

and um I'm excited about where the

marketing Journeys going yes kind of

there also just I guess a little

foresight on your part to your own

succession plan in the future then

too as far as far away as that might

be you you know it might not be a

Hardwick that takes over and so AB The

Firm continues on and when you talk

about mergers and you know

I I went through some merger talks last

year with somebody and I wish and at

that time we both said we're going to

have to come up with a different name uh

because we're in two different states

you know there's state laws around

accounting firms and so we were going to

have to come with a different name

anyway and I was excited about that

Prospect um you know it's interesting

talking to my granddad talking about

renaming and um when I first brought

Arcus to him he was like what do what

does that

mean why don't you want him to be

Hardwick people no us is this and he

doesn't have the the thought process

around what marketing is anyway he

didn't have the context of what

marketing is trying to do and so I was

like pop I'm trying to get this so that

in 25 30 years from now I can easily

transition this over to someone else so

yeah that is that's part of the

foresight into investing in that now so

we can build a a long-term brand okay so

last year you said it was an actual

merger it wasn't an acquisition or

anything like that it was actual merger

yeah

okay talk through some of that yeah if

you if you don't mind sharing if you

have permission to do that I got

permission go through it did not go it

did not go through um and it was someone

who was pretty equally sized as me uh

very tax heavy practice um and

the and probably prob people already

knew what I'm talking about so it

doesn't matter but um but we I was

looking for some technical expertise to

come in he was looking more for the

advisory piece that I have been building

in

so so it was a good merging of like the

technical like complex tax work with my

people and advisory work that I do that

I enjoy most and so we saw it as a good

a good melding of the two um went

through a due diligence phase I actually

worked on it for about three months um

of talking through and having uh ongoing

conversations um and came back to me one

day and he was like you are trying to

scale a firm and you are trying to build

something that I don't know if I want

to not that I don't want to go on the

journey with you but I don't see us I'm

ready to be done before too long a lot

earlier than you want to be done gotcha

so there's an age difference there and a

timing difference age difference yeah

was a merger but it was also more on his

side an acquisition or a a succession

plan yeah correct correct and and I

think you know it would have worked out

long term but when you have somebody and

I'm thinking 15 20 years down the road

and he's like I don't know if I want to

be doing this for five more years then

you have to I appreciate his wisdom

coming to me and the courage to say I

think we need to just stop where we are

okay

so how was that the due diligence phase

I mean with with Pop there's not much of

a due

diligence I mean how how was that

different you're you look at eval of a

practice that you don't want versus an

evaluation of a practice that kind of

does a lot oh I did I did want it

Barrett I did I did want it sorry I

didn't mean to say I was excited about I

was excited about it it was it was kind

of a little breakup for a second you

know you feel like you're you're dating

someone then you break up you know

gotcha uh in that D so but I'm I'm I

meant the evaluation of Pops clients

that necessarily you wouldn't want

long-term NE yeah versus evaluate

probably a

legitimate numbers based like this is

you know probably not as easy as one

times revenue or something like actually

has some metrics behind it right correct

yeah it it was a true merger so we were

not we were it was not going to be a

cash okay there was going to be no cash

it was a true we're coming together

running the firm together and that was

one of the very the first things we

talked about very clearly was there's

going to be no Curtis

clients um like we don't want silos of

just Curtis has his clients and I we

wanted to be a truly integrated firm

which I think is harder in a lot of ways

right uh than just saying well let's

merge and I'm going to keep my clients

we keep yours and we'll have a number on

what your value is versus mine and I

didn't want that and so I think that we

we were intentionally saying about a

year to 18 months of of due diligence

for black better ter to to facilitate

that merger so um which you know I hear

people will say they'll have a twoh hour

conversation you like yep let's let's

let's merge and let's let's do this

together but we wanted to be very

intentional and lay out the steps and so

we went

through um two full day sessions

together where we had an agenda and went

through personal goals where we wanted

to be uh business-wise how we work dayto

day what does an ideal day look like for

you um we looked at uh the financials of

course to make sure that we were you

know sort similarly Revenue m matched so

that it wasn't because I think if it

would have been like my revenue is like

3x then there probably would have been

some cash exchange in that deal um or at

least a note on that deal um we we were

pretty evenly matched and so it made

sense and then we did personality

assessments um so we did the working

genius just to make sure that we were in

line as far as our um you know where his

his strengths were my weaknesses and my

strength were which which which helps a

lot I think with those and um yeah at

least at least he pulled the plug at

like three months instead of the 18th

month yeah towards the end of 18 months

yeah three months is pretty early in

that in that scenario so but I I would

certainly say and Jason and Julie being

they were my business coaches for the

last year really did help me to

foundationally say you need to take this

very very very very very [ __ ] because

your brain's already thinking where can

let's get to the line here and it and it

took a lot of patience for me to say you

know what let's let's take

it uh painstakingly

slow okay gotcha is a merger still on

the horizon I mean you still have

weaknesses right so not not with them

but in the future is that still

something you consider or I would say

with the climate that we're in right now

I think it's probably going be more

acquisition okay I I don't have any on

the horizon but I can see if at least in

our geographic area there's a lot of

accountants

retired and unfortunately I think a lot

of them are 1040 based uh very very 1040

heavy and probably not recurring Revenue

heavy which is what our focus is now um

but I'm not it's not off the table

because we were having some discussions

last week about acquiring firms and

firing clients after you after you uh

make that and then take and picking and

choosing the right clients that fit your

needs your firm and you know but again I

don't have anything on the horizon right

now but I'm not opposed to it gotcha I

mean yeah you have experience of taking

somebody who thought they only wanted

this yeah and growing them and getting

them to fit so I can I can see that

working for you I do have some expertise

in that yeah uh crossing state lines

though that's how how how' that we into

the

decision is that something you revisit

again or was that too much complication

for you it wasn't too much complication

I think for me I know George

la it helps uh to to stay and and again

I know a lot of firms that I talk to

have clients nationally uh I'm more

comfortable in this in this our

geographic area and that's probably what

I'll mark it to uh working with PF I've

told them that's where I want to focus

for now um but there is some things to

certainly be mindful of I had to break

out the you know Georgia

CPA guide book and make sure that um I

had my eyes te eyes dotted in teas

acrossed as far as what I was thinking

um and uh and so again I'm not opposed

to it but it it would be you just have

to think about a lot

more okay so having gone through a

another due diligence process what's the

backwards looking perspective something

you should have thought about with pop

I think I needed more clar like again

trust was was was implied in that in

that deal um we both wanted a win-win

for each other he was not trying to

gouge me and get every penny cut out of

me um and so I think it is a different

structure than than a lot of people have

looking back more clarity and

Milestones

like I'm glad that he's worked as long

as he's wanted to work uh but I wish we

had more clarity around yes after five

years Curtis is like if he wants to

continue to have you on us as a as an

employee you can but this this is what

it means um I I feel like we were just

kind of not as clear on like the

milestones and uh maybe that worked out

better for our relationship I would have

been like your 80 and you de want to

retire I like you're done it may have

hurt our

relationship um but that that's the

biggest part is just having a clear

sense of what what what is the

expectations for each partner and having

that in a clear document and the signed

by both people I think we left it a

little

ambiguous as far as the complimentary

roles versus same I mean would you say

you're much more like your grandfather

than complemented your grandfather other

than like just 50 years age difference

and all that kind say that a different

say that a different way so I mean the

the skills that have brought your your

grandfather to this point do they line

up with the skills that you see in

yourself or those 10 years of overlap

that you guys have had are there certain

things he's his strengths have been

Shoring up some of your weaknesses other

than like you with marketing technology

things like that yeah C well again I

think the the wise piece the wisdom

piece has been invaluable I think it's

it's something that I and the the

patience I've had to learn and I'm not

saying that I'm the most patient person

but the patience in situations and

Seasons to instead of just just jumping

ship to say like okay this is this is

how I need to go this is the next step

uh and there's a lot of wisdom in in

what he's taught me in that mentorship

over the last 10 years um that is going

to be invaluable I mean it's I already

see the FR about okay

excellent all right uh I do like to end

my shows with a lightning round so I've

prepped you for this one and uh this is

just um something I like to do with my

client or with my guests my clients with

my guests just to you know find out um

some of your offthe cuff thoughts on a

couple things so uh coffee or tea first

off coffee coffee coffee any particular

way uh pour over Heist that's right okay

yeah uh

pie or cake pie Mom's Apple Pie I I

would I would hope being in Georgia pie

is gonna rank higher than cake well

usually it be pecan pie is more Georgia

but my mom she she'll do apple pie like

where she actually slices the apples and

make like those are on do yeah it's

incredible once's a year we get

that um what's a common belief among

entrepreneurs or maybe among your

clients uh that you would like to

challenge

that we're added alone that we're added

alone I think that

with with all the connections we can

make online now um I think a lot of

people are going at it alone that don't

need to kind of like a me versus the

world everybody's either competition or

a client kind of thing y okay excellent

uh your favorite holiday and

why uh Christmas cuz my mom makes an

apple pie

not Christmas though uh when you get

family together and you know most people

aren't working between Christmas and New

Year it's just a a sweet time have

family and friends all in town you have

young kids I have a two-year-old a

two-year-old uh you're entering the

Golden Age of Christmas is oh yeah

awesome uh are you a morning person or a

night person and do you have a favorite

Routine Morning uh ideal morning is I'm

up at like 5:30 5 or 5:30 um I do a

meditation every morning on the combat

10 minute meditation and then ideally

I'm reading either a business book a

fiction book um reading my Bible just

getting the day going it's some nice

quiet time that I can Journal if I need

to get some thoughts out y reading and

coffee how many hours usually do you get

in in the morning well with a

two-year-old that's why it has to be

like five or 5:30 because I'm trying to

get an hour hour and a half in um before

he gets up but uh but I'm I'm definitely

a morning person my I get out of bed and

my mind is spinny it's already kicking

up and getting ideas so that's a good

time for me just to settle have a little

break and be by myself start focused

yeah

good

um what what is one thing that you would

want your successor to remember you for

in business yeah this was a good

question um that I was I was fair

I did create

safety and that they they were able to

glean some wisdom off of me and what I

in in the way that I went about my

life safety's definitely keeps coming up

so that's that's

awesome uh what are you where are you

finding creativity right now uh reading

I just finished um unreasonable

Hospitality which is a huge a big book

that I would recommend to anybody of any

industry about it's will gadera I think

is his name it's about 11 Madison Park

Restaurant in New York it was a number

one restaurant in like the

2010s uh just his journey and so I've

gleaned a lot of interesting wisdom from

a restaurant

tour it's giv me some cram spark in the

in the business awesome

cool uh and what do you have coming up

other than the Rebrand that's got you

really excited about this next year so

another another round of like client uh

re-evaluation uh which is which is what

I did this past year a lot and um and

also just making sure that our focus on

the marketing side um that we are being

consistent with our marketing um and

with the messaging that we do so I think

the biggest thing right now is Rebrand

we're also looking for new office space

to to live out of our

location

expand like larger space or just

different location both okay so and

looking a higher so if anybody listening

is looking to get into the CPA for let

me know okay so start opening I mean uh

entry level position yeah multile entry

level would be great gotcha okay um I

actually would love to revisit that

client grading aspect if you don't mind

sticking around for a bon this content

we can go over that but yeah uh yeah

Curtis thank you I appreciate you being

on the interview here and uh this has

been really good it's it's not every day

that we talk succession planning skip

generation skipping succession planning

so I know yeah it was it was good to

find out some of the you know pitfalls

but I think mostly just benefits uh that

you've that you shared with us so I

appreciate that it has been I've been

lucky I've been very lucky in that

regard so thank you Barett