The Art of Succession

welcome to the Art of Succession podcast

with Barrett Young join us as we explore

the strategies stories and insights that

shape the journey of leadership

transitions and business success no

matter where you find yourself along the

journey this is the podcast where you'll

find the tools to make it happen
you

know even if it's a business that you're

still heavily involved in um there's

there's still options there and there's

still value there um it just you need to

find the right buyer you need to find

the right person um that sees that value

um so I knew that the the speed of scale

and the speed of um growth I could

accelerate without having a lot of

learning curve i went for a bike ride

and

I was like wow that was the most amazing

thing I've done in a long time
my name

is Barrett Young and this is the Art of

Succession podcast my guest today is

David Forester david successfully built

and sold four companies ranging from

landscaping services to a retail store

and today he's going to share with us

the steps that he took to prepare them

for acquisition david welcome to the Art

of Succession
hey thanks for having me

so before we get started I want to know

like what's the number one takeaway or

what you want listeners to gain from

from this episode here on the artist

succession
yeah um you know it's the the

biggest thing I learned over the years

is that it's it's not all on you um and

sometimes even more than that um you

know secession andor u making that pivot

it's not it's not necessarily quitting a

lot of times that will sneak in as a

guilt a guilt trip in your own head that

you're giving up on something and it may

just be a pivot that's moving you to a

better season and opening the door for

somebody else
okay great so you've

successfully built and sold four

companies is that correct
yep
and now

you are what uh define your role now in

the current company that you're at
yeah

so I'm a fractional COO and um

operations leader so I help other

businesses build out their systems um

and implement better systems to smooth

out operations be more profitable
okay

great yeah yeah and I know systems are

going to be a huge part in the

acquisition of a company and that's why

I'm excited to have you on the episode

today so uh let's get started uh just a

little bit about your background and

that first company if you don't mind

yeah um so I grew up on a farm and so

everything outdoors was just a a had to

learn right i learned how to work with

my hands and um we didn't use very many

power tools on anything my dad loved the

uh just doing it all by hand so I grew

to appreciate um all of the tools that

we get to use now but um that led me

into the landscape industry just kind of

naturally i loved being outside getting

my hands in the dirt and um you know the

first I had kind of a soloreneure

venture that I did as a younger guy um

going into college and stuff like that

that um I wouldn't necessar I didn't

sell that one i wouldn't necessarily

really amp that one up as like a full-on

business but my first real business

where we um you know grew and scaled and

had multiple crews and doing all that

stuff um was a landscape maintenance and

and design install business um Okay

loved it we did that for several years

okay i I assume you didn't start with

the intent of selling this one you

started as you needed a job or
Yeah i

mean it I I've always I've been pretty

entrepreneurial my whole life and so I

had the idea that that was a possibility

um but I didn't it wasn't I didn't

reverse engineer it for that by any

means it was definitely a a raw uh

bootstrap start to begin with um and to

provide for my family as we were getting

married
okay so just in your early 20s

you start this uh landscape services

company talk to me about the growth talk

to me about like what you did thinking

this possibly could be the your company

for the rest of your life what did that

look like and how did you start to scale

it
yeah um so you know really

I'm such I'm a very fast-paced and just

kind of the normal entrepreneurial type

A type personality so at that age I was

very rough edges and and um not a lot of

planning going on just going for it

right and um systems really weren't a

need to me at that point so scaling

wasn't even like a term that I thought

of i just knew I wanted to you know get

to this much revenue and have this many

crews and and the perspective of how I

grew that business was really uh a

topline type perspective uh okay not not

necessarily around profit and wasn't

really around
any kind of exit strategy

it was just like let's grow this thing

and and then I can you know pat myself

on the back and I'm I'm a cool guy um

but my my work ethic definitely was made

it made it possible um and

grew grew with a couple of really good

crews and and did okay with it
okay what

do you think the uh the key to your

growth was because I know a lot of

people when they start getting into

crews they start I have a couple clients

that are landscaping businesses they

start to grow beyond their own ability

their own uh ability to delegate or

trust other people to do a good job and

everything like that they can kind of

reach a plateau
so and you're you're

talking about this wasn't purposeful or

anything it's just like more customers

equals more revenue and um I'm sure cash

flow was a learning experience for you

in that early one so what what was it

your work ethic passed to the rest of

the team and everything that that was

able to make that successful

yeah um you know the I mean I I was

going to say just absolute tenacity

um but the

you know the probably the biggest part

that I learned there was um

just setting the example as far as

leadership um I didn't I don't think

looking back on it right but I don't

know that I realized that in the time

but I've talked to some of the guys that

worked for me at that time
and um I

could probably still use them as

references today that uh it was just a

very relational Um I don't I don't treat

anybody

any different whether you're big small

young old whatever i've always been that

way um and so just respecting my team um

and treating them like equals versus you

work for me I sign the checks um I think

had a huge thing to do with being able

to trust and grow and and move through

those early phases
okay gotcha what what

shifted in your mind and at what stage

in the business did you start to to look

towards something different

uh that's a that's an interesting story

on that one because um it was unexpected

um I was having a blast we were growing

um we had really great reviews and um

just customers loved us we were getting

referrals marketing wasn't even a

problem because we really didn't really

need to i mean it was we were doing

great right my wife had come um she had

quit her job and was running the office

for me and I was just on on cloud nine

on top of the mountain and um I woke up

one morning in kind of the middle of the

winter which for us was a slower season

um in the Kansas City area and we uh I

had had a I'd realized I had had a dream

and in the dream I was God had said "Put

it down." And I was like "What does this

mean?" like I'm not I'm not the kind of

guy that would normally have that kind

of dream right so I thought about it for

a couple of days and um brought it up to

my wife and

she said "Oh thank God." Like she said

answered her prayer
yeah literally like

she was absolutely miserable hated doing

what she was doing um I thought it was

the same as what she had been doing for

the company she had worked for before so

I'm like "Oh this is perfect." Yeah but

just the different pressures of it right

and we had just gotten married so um

starting this business the first four

years of marriage was just me buried in

this thing until midnight every day no

time for her uh any conversation we had

was now just business because she was my

partner and working with me and um so

she was miserable and I was oblivious

and she's holding it all together on the

administrative side making sure payroll

is getting done there's cash all that

kind of stuff yep
i know the story yep

and so thankfully that happened early in

our marriage and in that business and in

a timing that it did and um so we we

honestly we um took a a leap of faith

and um at that time I think we listed it

on Craigslist
okay um and um yeah and

had lots of uh interesting conversations

through that but we ended up connecting

with another uh landscape business owner

in the area um kept it all confidential

and and made a really good transition

for the customers for the team at that

time and um that was how that one kind

of shaped up it was a an unexpected

but uh blessing for my family
yeah okay

so you're kind of absorbed into like a

larger area a competitor effectively

doubling their their contracts their

markets or whatever um what did you

learn about like because you didn't

start this company thinking there'd be a

sale price associated with it what did

that teach you about what you'd built

and why there was value there
yeah um

you know it's that's another unique area

where there's a lot of opinions um that

I've heard right you know every small

business owner thinks that everything is

worth way more than it is and it's like

well I think there's a lot out there

that don't think that what they have is

really worth anything and it's not true

um you know you may not have you know

even if it's a business that you're

still heavily involved in um there's

there's still options there and there's

still value there u it just you need to

find the right buyer you need to find

the right person um that sees that value

and no different than a marriage or a uh

you know finding the right customer for

a unique u service

that not every buyer is the right buyer

and that's a good thing um so we just I

learned that the unique approach that we

used for our customer journey was

valuable um
okay
and um the relational

approach that we have to things as a

business brings a ton of value and uh

that culture that we had built into our

team and to everything we were doing was

uh was something that for sure could

bring bring value um you got but I also

learned where to find the value versus

the things I might have thought were the

value weren't like it for that it really

wasn't even the you know how many mowing

accounts we had and how many jobs we

that was all going to have to be

recontracted and you know over time that

it's cash flow and it's a good thing

it's where the business heartbeat is but

um the the real value behind it was

u

the way that the relationship was with

those contracts
mhm yeah so I mean a

somebody swallowing you up a bigger one

they could just say "Well we'll wait

till you go out of business and then

those people will naturally find us."

But you're saying here in this case your

competitor actually saw something in a

process or that that onboarding piece

that you talked about there and said "We

want to buy that and adapt it to our

existing book of business then." So tell

tell me just a little bit about how you

happened into that i mean the young

young kid first company and you built a

process here that somebody else is

looking at and say that's valuable
yeah

um you know honestly the and look it's

all looking back right i mean at the

time I didn't realize I was building a

process at all it was just the way I was

raised um and like I said I the way I

treat my team is the same way I treat my

customers um you know I'm not I just

wasn't there to oversell them on

anything i was there to fulfill a need

and and solve problems and um that that

relational journey of what we were

building and way the way that the touch

points were and how often we

communicated with them and um you know

when it when it's pouring rain and you

can't mow a yard

that customer's grass is still growing

and they are still very concerned about

it so just putting ourselves in their

shoes okay how are they seeing it

they're not really they don't care that

now we have 60 yards to do instead of 20

um by Friday right cuz it's still

growing and it's not stopping and so you

got to wait for the right timing so

learning how to communicate and let them

know what's going on and hear their

concerns and that was all part of our

process um and so I think um you know

potentially they saw the that as a an

ability to improve their own systems as

well when they were looking at the the

buy in
interesting uh how long did that

process take you from from like the

dream to signing over the business
yeah

I think we um fully hands off fully I

think it was like the middle of May um

we went through a couple of discussions

one contract that was supposed to close

um that actually called me and backed

out the morning of closing like two

hours before closing um and he was uh

extremely thankful at how gracious I was

about it um and uh we went went back to

the drawing board and and had some more

discussions and um so you know Dream

listed maybe

within about three or four weeks um

within about four weeks had about three

weeks had a contract and it was supposed

to close in a few weeks and then um that

one obviously when he backed out it took

another it was about another

week or two before that next discussion

that actually turned into something and

um about a month or so of the total

transition maybe a little more total

transition time
okay but still in the

spring
yeah under under six months still

in the spring at the time when you guys

are at your busiest season so
okay great

um how did how did you and your wife

decide to start another company from

that tell tell me that tell me that

story
yeah so um for about the next year

and a half I actually ran a um

uh property management department for uh

a gentleman that I kind of had a

connection with and um it was a really

great relationship to spend time around

what I would say was kind of some

mentors um on a daily basis they were

just guys that had been through uh life

in the season that I was in you know

they were a season ahead they were

becoming uh you know they were had older

kids and or um having grandkids and um

so just learning a lot from them around

more relationship stuff
and um when he

decided to diversify his portfolio

I knew that that was a signal for like

hm all right what's going on here uh so

I mentioned to my wife you know what if

what if we started another landscape

company we have no non-compete where

we're at right now and um you know what

does what does that look like to you and

she said "You're a completely different

guy than you were two years ago and um I

completely trust you to do things the

right way and if that's what if that's

what we're going to do that's what we're

going to do." Um
what had changed in

that year and a half working for

somebody else being an employee again

just maturity family situation
yeah

maturity um priorities uh understanding

her and communication and um
work life

boundaries
yeah and I mean honestly you

know she did a lot of work from her end

too i don't want to say that I just had

to change into this different person she

learned

um a lot of communication with me um we

just learned how to communicate together

and we learned what what uh all of that

sounds like um how to overcommunicate

but in a healthy way right um and um

spend a lot more time together um once

we sold the b that business one of the

commitments we made together was that we

move we sold our house uh not long after

that we moved about a year later um and

when we moved into the next house we

said we don't want a house that I come

home to needing to do like we didn't

want to fix her upper didn't want we

just wanted something that was done and

okay and we were happy with it
and that

way we could just be with each other and

it wasn't just coming home to more

projects
more mow lawns

yeah understood that okay so why

landscaping the second time around
yeah

um it's what I knew um I knew how to

basically just get right back to where

we were um so I knew that the the speed

of scale and the speed of um growth I

could accelerate without having a lot of

learning curve um we were still within

the KC metro we were just a different

part of the metro um a different county

so um didn't have any non-compete issues

or anything like that and um

I just knew like suppliers and all the

stuff was just already there
okay gotcha

anything different about it other than

you as the owner that you took into the

second one
yeah um more more

organizations starting out more systems

um thought about all of the pain points

thought about the time frames um and um

looked over of all of the type of work

what was the most rewarding profitable

what was the easiest to recruit a team

um and just niched down a little tighter

um so that one we did mostly uh

residential design and build um within a

certain price range we were we were

really good at kind of the midsize

projects that we could get in and out

cleanly and um quickly for customers

that were um really blown away at how

fast we could do it um so they were big

enough to be profitable but they weren't

so big that we were there for a month or

anything so
um tell tell me just a

little bit about that business and the

growth and yeah the the dream that led

to selling that one

um not not far off but um
okay
the uh

yeah that one um

was very um I'm trying to kind of think

back on it now to be you know accurate

for you the

being a different stylist so less

maintenance u we did bed maintenance and

shrubs like if we installed it we would

maintain it the long term but we weren't

doing um the lawn care stuff um and so

that changed

um you know a lot of the

recruiting abilities right um
but it had

you're not doing weekly maintenance at

this stage you're like once a month or

one seasonally kind of coming out and

cleaning up

okay and um so most of it was like a new

uh design and install you know tearing

out an old landscape and refreshing it

with new stuff or new construction uh

model homes we did a lot of that where

we would do the initial landscape and um

like uh models that were on the parade

and stuff like that um so it was a it

was a different recruiting it it

expanded more quickly um it had its own

challenges because there's just this

tighter margins in that stuff and you

have to really manage um cost on waste

and all kinds of different things so um

dollarwise it grew much more quickly

because project sizes were much bigger

it's not a $50 mowing it's a $5,000

install
um so

that part of it grew the um equipment

that was needed it was a it was a

totally different growth path um that

had its own stresses but um created its

its own learning curve and and values as

well
okay about how big of a company

relative to the second one for that you

know increased revenue but less people

what's that what's that look like
yeah

uh we got we ended up probably the same

i mean I think we had

seven or eight um on average employees

might go up a little we had a season

where we went a little over that I think

um but then just got better employees

and were able to kind of scale that back

be more efficient
is that like four

crews or three crews
uh three yeah
three

okay
um and

size like dollar-wise we were probably

double the first one um because it was

you know the all the the material costs

and all just the difference in the in

the construction style stuff and um the

volume of doing builder work things like

that but the margins were considerably

tighter and um had its own stresses

there but um so same number of people

doing very different things more more

exposure more liability um higher skill

set needed and u just different

different learning curve for the team

different trainings is this still you as

the primary seller out there

what so talk to me about that shift of

going from weekly maintenance to larger

projects and the sales cycle and

everything what What did you have to

learn for that process
yeah just um you

know I'm I'm not naturally a sales guy

i'm really relational which ends up

being really good in sales um and

not being afraid like stop thinking with

my own wallet was really hard like a $50

mo that's just pretty standard you know

it's a normal neighborhood mower or

whatever so we would that was pretty

acceptable on on most terms um and we

overd delivered for that price as I've

looked back and like learned that's why

we stuck so well is because we were

doing so much providing so much more

than other companies were at that price

point um so moving over to this just

thinking at that scale and not being

afraid to actually be profitable in the

job and understand like

we have real costs and exposures and and

overhead and things to get this done

with equipment and um so that was my

biggest learning curve jumping from

maintenance to design build was it's a

you know there's 10 to sometimes

you know 50 times um the ticket and uh

just set the right expectations and
Okay

so what what caused you to to start to

look for the exit on this one um again

this one was uh I think this time I knew

I think this is a stepping stone um

since I we had done the first one was

four years and so um at about that

fouryear mark I kind of just my antennas

I think kind of perked like not really

knowing that but all the way through I'd

kind of okay this is a stepping stone we

can build this maybe we keep it and it

it operates but and it's just a cash

flow provider and maybe we'll do

something different um because I don't

know my my body is not going to hold up

to this and I don't know whether I want

to take it to the level where I'm you

know just in like a CEO position i don't

know how I want to how I want to do that

how much I want to have to manage so I

always had my my thoughts around it um

and uh it was a really hard summer i was

really tired um burned out a little bit

and

took a week off um around my wife's

birthday we used to try to take a little

bit of time off because it was

mid-season and I knew okay just clear my

head take some time off i'll be fresh

when I come back and I went for a bike

ride

and

I was like "Wow that was the most

amazing thing I've done in a long time."

Partially because my wife said "If you

don't go ride that thing I'm going to

sell it." And I've always I've always

liked cycling so I had a pretty nice

bike and I worked at a bike shop

previously and um so got good access to

a really nice bike and it just hung

there and um wasn't using it so she said

"Go ride that thing or I'm going to

sell." Okay go out for a bike ride and

it was like just mind-blowing how much

it just felt like everything fell off of

me and I said "All right there's

something here i need to I need to share

this with more people there's business

owners out there that are just weighed

down like I am and there's people in

just life whether they're a business

owner or not." And um so I started

looking into what it looked like to open

a bike shop like what is that what kind

of what are the the vendors or suppliers

and what do I need how much capital am I

going to need where can I put it blah

blah blah blah blah like what does that

even look like
and uh

very rapidly turned into a lot of doors

opening and three months later we were

opening our bike shop
still had still

had the landscape company
um so I was

like "Oh this is yeah this is going to

be the cash flow burned out let's start

a second business

right yeah um and

uh there was about a fivemon period of

of running both maybe six to seven um

that was

a realization period of like you know

you can't have you can't serve two

masters it's just not not at that like

there would there's a phase where maybe

yeah you can take your hands off of a

business and it operates and um there is

that type of a phase for a business this

was not there and uh that was an

interesting

um dichotomy of events and the uh so

that's when it started to transition

toward the thought of um you know maybe

we need to transition this to somebody

else and um that was that one was

actually you know al again didn't use a

broker um was very just used my own

network and the relationships that I

built over time and um talked to a young

couple that had he had just launched his

own company and uh was a really great

guy and uh I wanted to see them succeed

they were just starting their family and

so we had a discussion about maybe what

would that look like do we do this

together do we do you just want to do

your own thing like what is that and uh

structured a a way to transition

everything over to him um and he's still

running it today it's been about eight

years and uh

doing really well
okay how long of a

transition i mean it sounds like it was

like a gradual kind of turning over

rather than him come I mean you said

part of the discussion was does he just

come in as a manager kind of thing but

right
sounded like he wanted a path to

ownership for this
yeah and um I think

it was I mean it wasn't super long it

was but I mean at least a couple months

okay
of of making that transition over

and um making sure that like financially

it was it wasn't a bad idea wasn't

setting any either one of us up for

failure and um going from there
now

you're in a completely different world

um you said you had worked at a bike

store growing up uh but you've moved now

from outdoors services for homeowners

to retail inventory all these other

things talk to me just about that that

shift for you and and what it required

you from you as a business owner because

you're still you're still owning these

companies you're not in the chief

operating officer role you're in the

chief everything role here so how what

what did that require you to shift and

change and where did your strengths

really shine in that too
yeah um I mean

again the strengths were definitely

still the relational side um if

anybody's familiar with how bike shops

thrive it's they're we would joke all

the time we're a community center we

just happen to do the bike thing right

plan and planned rides and repeat buyers

are huge in bike shops so
and we were

planted in a in an area that had never

had a bike shop before um so a lot of

people would come in and say "Was there

enough people around here enough cyclist

to support a bike shop?"
And I'd say "No

but that's why I'm here i'm I'm here I'm

not here to steal business i'm here to

make more business." Like there's plenty

of people in Kansas City we could have a

lot more bike shops if more people rode

bikes and so that was my mission and I

just made that my mission to get more

people on bikes and show them how

amazing it was for the stress relief and

anxiety relief and just um you know

along with the the health side of it

talk to me a little bit about that

because you said you wanted to help

business owners to cycle and you know

you know business owners now having run

two companies for about four or five

years each how do you how do you make

that introduction hey you're pressed for

time you need to get out and take a

two-hour bike ride
yeah I don't know

that I ever perfectly I don't think I

ever perfectly figured that one out um

we uh it it I would say we some of our

customers were business owners but

really it it just started building such

a community and connections that that

part of it kind of just got put on hold

on like identifying just with the

business owners um and that was you know

uh it was a a dis it's kind of a

disappointment i wanted more but that I

mean what you just asked is an extreme

struggle in that sales process and

helping identify the time for that and

um you know now I have a lot better

grasp on it but starting out it was just

let's get more people on bikes kids

adults I don't care let's just make the

culture of this small community that

we're in and then start try to push it

from there

and um but when you said inventory you

saw my eyes get big like like it's a you

know that's a whole different retail and

inventory management cash flow um you

know we've got a lot more overhead um

with a space to rent bikes aren't small

and we learned that fast so outgrew our

first space very quickly stuck it out

for the rest of that lease and then

finally were able to move up and um it's

a just a different process and um yeah

yeah and bikes from a bike store are not

a cheap thing to keep on inventory

either so you know the cheap cycles uh

bicycles are you know $1,500 $2,000

and sizes and colors and models and like

you just you end up with um you know

during the the pandemic bike boom um we

got inundated at the end of it with too

much inventory at that point um we had

somewhere just over 300 bikes in the

store at one time and it was like that's

not we don't need that
because at you

know a year leading up to that you

probably couldn't get bikes fast enough

because so many people were buying them

so

didn't see the end of that and so you

you ended up overstocked when the when

and it kind of like everything

compressed it like wasn't coming it

wasn't coming it wasn't coming and then

when it came available it all came

available so it just at once and it was

like whoa no i needed that spread out

hold on a second so thankfully we we

were able to cancel a big portion of it

but some people weren't and it was it

was a a hard season
okay gotcha so you

ran that one for how long um little over

seven years
okay

um and obviously saw success in that um

what

you know what what was the hard part of

that that you kind of wished I I should

have gone back to landscaping were there

ever any of those moments
yes
uh what

did you face face there besides COVID i

mean obviously that's that's a huge one

so
um
you as a business owner though I

mean what what are some of the

realizations that you're having in the

growth and the stretching for that
yeah

uh systems um it really I mean even as

systematic as my mind is like it just

really pushed me because they weren't

systems that I learned from my dad on

the farm like in landscaping I just kind

of knew everything right i knew what

tool to use and um how to do this and

how to do that and so I could easily it

was just lead by example and train

whereas this I was learning a lot of

things at the same time as trying to

teach them as we're growing and hiring

and um we actually opened a second

location for a little while and that was

a interesting experiment it was really

good intentions really good idea could

have been amazing it just was the wrong

timing and um so I learned a lot through

that too but um the systems of

retail and service together um how those

two things cooperate with each other to

empower each other andor really hurt

each other um how much that can happen

um and the uh the difference in

you know on the ticket side of things

you know you've got bikes can range

anywhere from you know four or 500 bucks

to $20,000 for a full custom like

triathlon bike with electronic Bluetooth

shifting and carbon everything and um so

there's just such a wide scale of

knowledge needed and then a mechanical

aptitude needed on the service side as

well um and there's not a lot of

standardization every brand has its own

unique thing and so that the systems to

make the learning curve as palatable as

possible

so employee systems specifically

training and hiring and getting them up

to speed quickly talk to me a little bit

about that just
what a system in that

kind of environment looks like
um so

onboarding was extremely important like

we needed um we didn't want to just be

the the bike shop that somebody came

into and u you know it's just like oh

well these guys like hanging out and

talking bikes and drinking beer or

whatever like we were you know we had

polos and we were very much more

professional more um for especially kind

of the demographic we were in it was

helpful and um the the onboarding was

important for them to catch our culture

that we weren't just trying to sell to

sell that we were really solving a

problem and getting the best fit for the

customer um and learning what that

language was like but also still being

successful in selling and then on the

service side um the

just the excellence and the detail

that's needed to um underpromise and

overd deliver which has always been my

my mo on everything i mean um

checklists i mean that's just what I I

came up came into is I've always loved

checklists it's just we have checklists

for everything and um make it as simple

as you possibly can like the E-Myth was

a a great book for me to learn more

about systemizing and simplifying

stepping out of that role and find

figuring out how somebody other than me

would do it um and um

it was

it was a it was a fun adventure
other

than COVID what led to the end of that

one
uh my daughter
okay
yeah she in a

good way in a very good way u so we

we've been we'd been married 14 years at

the time didn't know that we could have

kids had tried for a long time um did

all the testing you could do and

everything seemed normal and all this

stuff and then um my wife went in and

did some blood work on a just a doctor

visit to figure out some stuff she just

didn't feel good um the uh they said

"Well you do you realize you have this

thing called the MTHFR gene mutation and

your body doesn't process folic acid the

same and it can cause this list of

little little symptoms that most people

just say "Oh I'm just getting older."

Well on that list was difficulty

conceiving and miscarriage and these

other things and um along with you know

Alzheimer's and dementia blah blah blah

uh and so some serious things but

nothing that you can really correlate

back oh that's what it is and um so

because we were like "Oh well maybe we

could have kids." They said "Well you

should get tested too i grew up on a

farm i'm fine." Well I ended up having

it as well
made a shift in her diet

which was a really simple shift to make

but two months later she was pregnant

wow
so life changed right um and then um

about two weeks after her daughter was

born um her sister passed away and un

unexpectedly she had been having some

health stuff but um it was it was not

expected and she was only 43 um so that

was a huge hit right after having her

and uh about 9 months later um my dad

passed and so we just got hit with like

really

intense like what are we doing right i

had just turned 40 i'm not a young dad

right so I just turned 40 lost my dad

she lost her sister and we and we now

had our little girl who was uh amazing

and such a blessing and she's great um

so I wanted to spend more time with her

and more time with family and retail

hours um you know as we had great

systems in place I had amazing team they

would have let me go you know to do

whatever I wanted to do um but that just

I knew that wasn't long-term like wasn't

going to be

a lifestyle that was going to support

the business in the way that it needed

to um so I knew that I wasn't the right

leader for it anymore uh and so that's

when we started looking at what that

transition would look like
okay um wow

when it rains it pours right
all right

yeah
uh so this is about two three years

ago
this Yeah it all that all started um

my daughter just turned two in February

so
Wow

um

I mean you got to do something next it's

not retail so

did you have that idea in mind when you

started considering selling or did you

say we're just going to sell and

possibly go back and get another job or

what's that look like for
I was having I

was having some discussions because I I

didn't have the clarity of this is why

we're leaving this one to do this one

now um

and um so I had some discussions with

some connections I had for some

different roles and different positions

i had um we had had discussions about

you know trying to maybe find a

landscape business that was ready to

exit and figure out a like some kind of

a unique financing um deal with a a

business that I could step into as an

operator um and not have to be in the

field all the time

um and none of that stuff played out um

but it did play out on the sales side um

for the shop in a in a good like a way

that was good for the shop good for the

community good for the team um and so it

was a little bit of an unknown stepping

out on that one a little bit

nerve-wracking but
selling the business

without knowing what you're going into

right away

okay wow um did you end up selling to a

dealer did you end up selling to a

cyclist that wanted to move into

ownership what that look like
um it was

it was actually a uh another dealer that

we knew um again network if I get if

anybody's going to learn anything maybe

what I should have said at the beginning

was networking
build your network and

relationships and
among competitors

right because you never know when a when

a competitor might you know
be a

business opportunity there
yeah and

could go either way you know it could be

that you need to exit or it could be

that they need to exit and it's an

opportunity for you and um he had uh

this guy had a a store on the north end

of town um and also kind of on the

another side up north so he had both

corners of the north part of the metro

um where he had stores and so then

acquiring ours and adding that was a

perfect little triangle of the the area

um and it added um a good aspect to some

of his other products and stuff that he

was also doing so um it was a an easy

yes for him um and it made sense for us

timing and and the way that it was going

to work out for the for our team that

was a big thing for me too is I wanted

everybody to either have the same or

better than where they were at um I

didn't want it to be where we were you

know putting anybody in a position of

having to make a decision

so
okay um so what ended up being next

for you
uh here we are
so talk about

where we are
yeah um transitioning over

to and I' I've been fighting this idea

for a while um you know I've had a

couple of I've I've helped and consulted

a little bit on operations and things

like that but I've I've really

considered myself a visionary and not

the operations guy for a long time um

you know my wife really supported me

well with a really she's really

operations and admined

and so I just had a skewed version in my

head of what that looked like um if I

was going to do that and um ended up

having a really good conversation with a

couple of respected friends of mine that

um had been telling me for a while that

this is what I I should be looking at um

and uh the fractional world is is um as

you probably know a little bit is um

it's a it's a newer uh area but it's

it's very unique and has a lot of

opportunities but in the operations side

especially um there's so much pain

for business owners in operations that

it's just something that you just want

to avoid and stick on a shelf and just

hope that it all works out and it's just

I don't have time to slow down and uh

I've gone through it enough realizing

how many times I've had to bang my head

against the wall that um that desire to

help business owners that I had that I

kind of had to tuck aside for a long

time um has kind of surfaced and it's a

it's a unique season to to serve others

um and you know I'm still a business

owner but it's um but it's serving in a

different way where I'm um you know

following leadership and helping

leadership achieve their goals and their

dreams um in a way that I've never been

able to do before and I'm finding it

extremely rewarding to see the the

burden come off of them you know like my

bike ride did for me and I see that

feeling happening for people when they

hear like oh this is possible so
yeah

yeah um talk briefly just about what a

fractional COO looks like i mean is that

a three-month project is it a I'm on

board you know years a year year after

year we're always that talk to me just a

little bit about that
yeah um it's I

mean it can be both and um a lot of

times it starts with an initial

engagement of um you know like six to 12

weeks of really deep diving in and

getting like the nitty-gritty stuff

figured out and then um whether I train

and onboard somebody to take that

position once the systems are in place

and they they know how to run it or if

somebody from internally that's now like

oh okay yeah I can handle this um then

we kind of onboard them over and support

for a little while um and there's some

sometimes a company may just know that a

like

for where they're at in their type of

operations um or the scale that they're

at they don't need a full-time or they

can't afford a full-time COO but having

the skill set of a of a real COO with

the experience um at you know a fraction

of the time 5 10 hours a week can

accomplish what they're what they need

in leadership um that also fit within

their budget so it can be a long-term

monthly engagement that's just a

part-time involvement
mhm i know you

know on the second landscaping company

you said you had to start to think of so

with somebody else's wallet in mind not

your own and I know you as an operations

guy you're probably like business owners

know how to do operations because you'd

successfully built and scaled three

businesses uh just by your systems by

your processes and everything like that

what is I'm I'm the visionary side

myself in operations i can do it but

it's not motivating it's not

rejuvenating for me and I just want to

get away from it as soon as possible so

how do how does a business owner

come alive again like that bike ride was

for you uh with you with you on board i

mean they can't just drop everything

right you just say "Take over the

company and run in i'm going to go you

know off to the beach." So talk talk to

me a little bit about what that process

looks like between the two of you what

those key like unlocks are and and and

how as a fractional COO you gain buy in

from whatever team might be in there too

yeah um that's so that last part the

buyin from the team is key um I found

that a lot of times the first visit that

I have there's a lot of um a lot of

walls um this consultant kind of feeling

is coming in and you know everybody

knows how people feel about consultants

you know after seeing office space and

what are you gonna do am I is my job

going to stay the same am I going to get

cut are you going to expect me to do

twice as much because efficiency comes

up a lot in our conversations and um

does that mean I'm going to be doing

twice the work in the same amount of

time and the same amount of pay and like

all of those justified questions start

coming up this outsider comes in and

says he knows all the stuff and the

owner's like "Hey we're going to have

him blah blah blah um so really just

addressing that ahead of time and when

they when they hear that I understand

those and I already expect those

questions like you're probably thinking

this this and this getting that buy in

of trust i'm not here to make your life

harder i'm here to make your life better

i'm I'm going to take what felt chaotic

for a long time and maybe you just got

used to it and it doesn't it doesn't

seem like chaos anymore because well

that's just how it is around here that's

how we do things was like "Well let's

make some adjustments." And um it's not

an overnight i know we're not going to

rip the band-aid off but um but it's uh

start small and start to see those wins

and it works for the team as much as it

does for the owner as well let's get

some small wins and you start to see it

working and you start to feel that like

oh maybe what he painted as this dream

of like I will have the free time to do

to work on the business instead of in

the business whatever sometimes I would

hear that early on and I'm like I don't

even know what that means man like what

does that mean working on the business

like so just distinguishing what those

things are and really finding out what

it is that the owner loves doing
that's

what the freedom is it's like do do the

thing that you love to do you know

there's many parts of a business and if

you love the sales you should be

involved in the sales somehow go do the

really big sales that only the owner can

do
um pull in the big contracts or if

you really love product development

because you're a you're the one that

developed this thing the first time and

you just want to dive into making it

better and just be involved in that then

do that part you know but um if the

operations is not your thing then even

if you do it it's only going to be

operating at you know a part partial

success

um and

getting that momentum going with small

wins at a time and then once that builds

into you get a three or four core

processes nailed down and then you start

using that same thought process to build

more of them and pretty soon the the

whole team is understanding like oh well

now I understand like this is how we

make decisions this is and that's like

how I like to structure it is you know

most small businesses got where they are

because they were really good at being

at serving the customer and solving

problems and they started to grow and

it's getting that out of your head and

into your team because nobody can read

our mind right um but you can build a

framework where they can get close
I

personally

have an issue with processes and maybe

you can speak to this because processes

mean lack of freedom for me as a

visionary and I'm like oh you just want

to fence me in and you want to put these

rules and stuff in place but I was

talking to a buddy who's a fellow

visionary and he brought a chief

operating officer into his firm and he's

like I now have so much more freedom to

explore the yard because I know things

are going out the door so talk to

someone like me who's like this guy's

going to come in and say I have to wear

a polo shirt in a bike shop and I just

want to talk about bikes kind of thing

talk talk a little bit about that unlock

that freedom um that can be gained from

taking care of the 90% of the stuff

that's not exciting for you
yeah um I

mean it's so I was like I said I

considered myself a visionary for a long

time and so I felt that same like I have

a high autonomy depending on what

personality profile thing you're going

to look at um like I'm I'm really high

on that got to do it my way type of

thing so um the easiest simple

description I can use is I really like

checklists and some people think well

well I'll just you know this just a

reminder or blah blah blah and it's like

well yes it is it you a checklist should

be able to teach a brand new person all

the steps that they can at least kind of

understand the process and then what it

does for the freedom side of it for an

experienced person is what if you get

distracted in the middle of it and then

you come back to it and you're like "Oh

I don't know where I was." Uh uh uh it's

just the thing that's like "Oh there I

was." And so you feel the freedom to

think freely and do things freely and

you can always just revert back to when

you come back to it then it's the oh

there I was
yeah this is how it's done

um okay so
so chase that chase that

rabbit trail just a little bit and be

able to pick up right back where you

left off
yep that's how that's my easy

analogy that's seemed to work for most

people
okay um I I guess who other than

somebody who's in pain and just can't

can't deliver consistently i mean what's

that how is a business owner going to

know this is what I'm missing and and

not just say "Well you guys are my team

you figure it out

um that's a really good question the

I think sitting down I mean if if

they're listening now and it's and it's

it's peing their interest of like huh I

never thought about there's you know uh

good ways to measure like whether you

are a visionary or an operator

integrator type person um EOS like

different different systems that operate

around this type of stuff pinnacle um

and um doing some some selfexloration

and building some self-awareness of

where your strengths are um and then

identifying if somebody on your team has

that strength and that's why it's not a

pain and you don't realize that you've

actually already been having them cover

that and they just do it naturally and

they like it so it just doesn't seem

like a problem um or you know talking to

your team and getting some feedback that

maybe there is some pain and just

nobody's talking about it um but the

self-awareness part of it will will

generally lead to some good discovery of

u of that and if you're just not you're

not achieving what you thought you would

achieve by now you kind of feel like

you're hitting a ceiling that's the

first key i would call that pain that's

for me i'm just fast growth if I want to

go and get this thing going and um so

when I hit plateaus or hit a ceiling

that was when I started looking for

solutions
nice okay awesome

um I mean David this has been a great

conversation i had a feeling that it

that it would be and like I said systems

are something that's rough for me but I

know my audience needs systems in order

to I mean systems are what convey

business value most of the time it's not

necessarily the idea it's how you

implement that idea that is transferable

to somebody else um is there anything

else that that we've missed before we uh

before we wrap up the episode and get

into lightning round here that you want

to bring up um I mean you mentioning the

business value I mean that we've talked

to several um merger and acquisition um

agents um about processes and um whether

it's a legacy transition or it's a um

just an like an acquisition type sale um

it's amazing the difference of value

um that will be there with with those

the proper systems in place
um for that

secession or that exit um and I like to

look at everything now i mean with my

daughter

it's everything i'm I'm building a

legacy that I can whether it's I'm I'm

not expecting her necessarily to take

over a business or do any of that but um

it's an asset that I can build that will

teach her and allow her to see

possibilities and um knowing that if she

does want to run it then I want it to be

operating as smoothly as possible and

not hand her over a a messy rat's nest

of issues that now she has to figure out

this one just came to me i mean you said

you were like the outsider the

consultant coming in and my job's at

risk kind of thing but I think it also

gives you context it gives you a little

bit of independence too of putting the

business owner and their team on the

same

you know in the same position of we're

here to improve this so you can be like

the objective this is what needs to be

fixed and the business owner say "Oh wow

i guess we got to fix it kind of thing."

Rather than them being the bad guy
is

there a little bit of that probably in

the role too
yeah yeah i mean it's

you're playing a little bit
they they

brought you in so it's not like you're

doing anything opposed to what they want

but yeah
it is like no let's let's make

David happy and let's get this process

fixed
it I mean it helps being that

third party view um and I think that's

an exciting part for me as well is you

know from being inside my own businesses

I know the things that you just kind of

glaze over and and avoid and um justify

and so I can bring that perspective as a

previous owner of multiple things to

come in and say "Hey are we are we

looking at this right or do we um but

also approach it with you know a a

compassion level because I I know like

I'm not just coming in some guy that's

never never been in your position before

so it it really molds those two together

nicely
yeah yeah it definitely plays to

your strengths of relationship and

what's best for the team and you know um

not just make it make make this happen

and forget what everybody else thinks

kind of thing um and it probably also

still plays into a little bit of that

visionary side of you too because you

get to step into new businesses and

figure out how they're run every new

client so that's got to be a lot of fun

that would excite me so

I mean that's what I love about this

podcast is getting to put on the shoes

of somebody in in that kind of company

and and talking through some of these

things so
um awesome David i I really

appreciate you just sharing with us um

uh if there's nothing else are you ready

to jump into the lightning round
let's

do it
okay uh first question coffee or

tea and how do you like it
coffee black

okay

I get that answer a lot surprisedly so

um pie or cake and do you have a

favorite kind
cherry pie
cherry pie

right uh warm or cold or preferred

prefer warm but I mean it's cold is just

a different flavor like it changes

everything so it's both ways
okay
with

ice with vanilla ice cream would be

great
with ice cream gotcha all right um

what's a common belief among

entrepreneurs that you would want to

challenge

um you know one that I'm hearing a lot

in the last couple of years is that

there's no there's no good employees out

there can't find any good workers um and

I would challenge you to to step into

your leadership abilities a little bit

and and push yourself a little bit and

say is it that there's not any good

workers or is it that you're just not

attracting the people with your culture

and your leadership style and um you

know that can come from a lot of

different a lot of different angles

whether it's just um you're not being

yourself cuz you think you need to paint

this picture of this perfect place for

them to work and then when they get

there they're like this isn't what you

you're not who I thought you were cuz

you painted this picture and now your

real self's going to come out so being

authentic and and um not trying to force

anything but I I I believe that there

there still are some great teams out

there to be found um getting them in the

right seats will be a big part of it um

and so that's my big challenge right now

ouch

um what what's your favorite holiday and

why
uh Christmas

um I I'm I'm a Christian so Easter would

you know tend to be like a bigger
a

bigger thing but at the same time like

my birthday's close to Christmas

christmas is a lot more like just

festival and like joy and um I I just

love the that time of year
yeah and

you've got a two-year-old i mean

Christmas is just amazing when they're

that age
that's awesome
yeah

um would you consider yourself a morning

person or a night person and do you have

a favorite routine
uh morning and I've

I've got to get my workout in early gets

my mind working gets my blood pumping

mhm you still cycling
uh I do a little

bit um not as much as I It's since she's

been born it was it's been a little bit

off but um I do some indoor cycling for

warmup or for a long time um but I do um

some like circuit body weight stuff um I

don't get huge into weights or anything

but um I like to do something that my

80-year-old self is going to be happy

that I did
so being active but not

beating myself up with it
yeah nice

um what's one thing that you would want

your successor to remember you for

that's a good question

that's a like nothing's like super

popping in there the word community um

is coming to be there i think that's one

thing that's always been important to

both my wife and I is um that we

bring community together when there in

places that there's disconnection um so

if I'm remembered for being a community

builder that brought people together I'd

be I'd be okay with that
great okay

where are you finding uh creativity

right now my morning actually do a like

when I'm not doing a bike warm-up I do a

ruck like a weighted vest and just go

walk like a mile to two miles around our

neighborhood um through the park and

stuff and um it's super quiet at like

5:30 in the morning and so that has been

really uh refreshing and I've had a lot

of really great time of like reflection

and thinking and creative time for um

solving problems for uh prospects and

clients and stuff like that nice yeah

I've been enjoying rucking too if I

don't feel like I can run I can at least

walk so

nice um uh what's something that you

have coming up that's got you really

excited in the next year or so
i'm I'm

really I'm I'm searching for a challenge

of some type um right so I just I mean I

came off the the cycling world a little

bit where I've I've done the 100 mile

ride i've done that stuff there's some

there's some bigger challenges i mean an

Iron Man or like uh you know they do a

lot of the ultramarathon cycling stuff

too so there's still challenge there but

um kind of looking for something

different and I haven't really nailed it

down but I know at some point in the

next year whether it's a

um you know if I if I do an iron man or

I do like a tough mutter or something of

that something physically challenging

but also mentally challenging um I know

that I I can sense that that's kind of

on my horizon here in the next six to 12

months so I'm excited to see what that

comes up
yeah I'm I'm of the same

mindset i always have to have something

in the future that I'm training for

something scary seemingly impossible

that it's like you need to get out and

train so that you don't die on the road

kind of

yeah awesome very good uh David where

can people go and find out more more

about you
yeah uh easiest place is

Facebook um just look me up on Facebook

my actual key tag or whatever you call

profile tag on it is R David Forester um

and that will um get you where a lot of

my tips and comments but I I hang out

there quite a bit to communicate um or

they can email me um it's dfdfscales.com

and um if they're interested in I've got

a couple of really great templates that

if they're interested in like how to

make a role description or just somehow

to get their their systems a little more

clear and accountability there i'm happy

to share some of that stuff
great yep

we'll link that in the show notes along

with your website
cool
um
well David I

appreciate the conversation this has

been uh this has been a joy for me so

thank you so much
i appreciate it
you've

been listening to the Art of Succession

podcast with your host Barrett Young

twice a month we'll bring you interviews

sharing the successes and challenges

from business owners with their own

succession stories the Art of Succession

is sponsored by GWCPA and is provided

forformational purposes only before

engaging in any transaction you should

consult your own adviser if you've

enjoyed this episode please share it

with others