The Art of Succession

welcome to the Art of Succession podcast

with Barrett Young Join us as we explore

the strategies stories and insights that

shape the journey of leadership

transitions and business success No

matter where you find yourself along the

journey this is the podcast where you'll

find the tools to make it happen You

really don't know right their resume

could say they're amazing but then they

get in and they're not amazing The

highlights were for me have been the

growth the consistent growth Um and no

it didn't all come at once right it's

taken me at least 10 years Okay this is

proof that not everyone is meant to be

your client And when you let go of the

ones that

aren't the good ones will come in My

name is Barrett Young and this is the

Art of Succession podcast My guest today

is my friend Nisha Pi the founder of

PICPA and an international public

speaker Today we're going to hear how

Nisha was approached with an offer to

buy her CPA firm and we're going to hear

her perspective on the decisions that

she weighed as she ultimately turned

them down for now Nisha welcome to the

art of succession Barrett oh my gosh

thank you for having me I'm honored to

be on your show You know that we go way

back and I've always admired you as a

human a a firm owner and all the things

So thank you Oh thank you so much So

besides the personal relationship what

interests you most about coming on the

show today and sharing your story oh

great question I think it's important

that people know like I think it's

important to know why people make the

decision to say no for an offer because

we're so plugged into you know um saying

yes and saying yes to the first offer

that might come our way Um I think it's

important to talk about why it's

important to say no as well

Okay awesome Look I appreciate it and I

look forward to this discussion So uh

just a little bit of background Tell me

about you Tell me

about you know your career leading up to

and then the founding of PIC CPA for me

Yeah so I um started out at the big six

back then Arthur Anderson number one

accounting firm of the world I always

have to clarify that And I spent my

entire career my college career getting

into this firm and got in and then 18

months later got let go through the

whole counseling out process before

Arthur Anderson you know had its big

crash And um then I went to work in

industry and got married got pregnant

all the things And then a big life

change occurred for me where I got

divorced and went back into a local firm

here in Charlotte North Carolina And I

was at that firm for 5 years And then um

at the at year five I approached my boss

to not only put in more hours during tax

season at the time but for a raise And

he said no and I pulled a Jerry Maguire

which you know the story but for your

audience I pulled a Jerry Magcguire I

quit on the spot He told me I had a mom

gap in my resume as the reason that I

wasn't going to get the raise that I

asked for And a mom gap for people that

don't know is the time that a parent a

mom takes off to raise her childh And so

totally unfounded right because the mom

gap because you'd been there five years

I've been there five years right i've

been there five years So I quit I took

my one big client just like Jerry

Magcguire and I walked out and that day

I said to myself I'm going to try to do

this myself I'm going to do this on my

own Um and I started on my kitchen table

and it's been 14 years since Okay So

2011 11 then Yes Okay And your your son

was how old he was at the time 11 Okay

Gotcha Yes

Um and I I mean walk me through the past

you know 12 13 years leading up to this

this offer then I know that's a lot to

condense Yeah So did you start doing

everything that your previous employer

was doing how did how did that go yeah I

mean you know I might have taken a few

little templates with me They weren't

proprietary just FYI But you know I I

learned everything I could at that firm

And at that firm is where I learned to

work with small businesses Also how to

work with QuickBooks right the two

biggest things that you need if you want

to work with small businesses um at that

time And so I had all this knowledge of

how to do it Um did I know anything

about marketing branding

websites any of that stuff admin admin

took care of all that stuff Right Right

Absolutely not But I was like you know

I'll figure it out along the way Best

best decision I made as you know because

we both did this Best decision I made in

year two was joining the community of

Thrival Jason Blamer's community of

entrepreneurial accountants all over the

world And that is what shaped the growth

of my firm So shout out to Jason and

Thrival right that is what shaped my

firm And so I learned everything I could

learn as an entrepreneurial firm through

Thrival And that is what I have built a

lot of my firm

on In that time frame I hired I made

probably two of the best hires anyone

will ever make And unfortunately they're

the only two hires that have worked out

in 14 years Um I have my director of

operations who's been with me for 12 of

the 14 years and then um my team leader

who's been with me now for 5 years And

no matter how much we've grown or or

scale back in uh employees it's always

just been down to the three of us So I

now still have this firm with the three

of us and together um we handle 75

clients

And by handle 75 clients this is this is

bookkeeping this is tax What are what

are you guys doing for them great

question So we do um the client

accounting services sector of our

industry Mostly monthly bookkeeping

That's what's our that is our primary

bread and butter

And of course there's an advisory piece

to that as well as um a service offering

for people just coming in that want a

quick like QuickBook setups chart of

accounts um and then some coaching But

our bread and butter is the monthly

bookkeeping

Okay Which is recurring revenue which

does come into play when you're talking

about selling a business So you you had

that part locked down So um give me some

highlights and some the some low lightss

of the journey along the way if you

don't mind I'd say the low lightss all

have to do with hiring and firing

Um and I why

Nisha um well you know um without you

know mentioning some of the hiring

mishaps I made because you know there

you know there are companies that I

hired um that I'll not name that that

really disappointed me But you know I've

tried it all I've done Indeed I've done

LinkedIn I've done you know hiring uh a

recruiting agency And you know at the

end of the day it's like a marriage Like

until you bring someone into your

company which you know this you really

don't know right their resume could say

they're amazing but then they get in and

they're not amazing Um but my low

lightss were you know getting cussed out

or you know telling me being told off

about what a terrible leader I am from

someone that I had to let go of and fire

right or or just Yeah just being

disrespected or or

um talked down to or like I said cussed

out when you had to fire somebody And I

hate I hated that part I hate that part

of the business I hate it And so I've

been on a hiring freeze now for a good

three years

Um i.e we've had to have a wait list

because I get high anxiety I get high

anxiety from trying to hire

Yeah I mean any technician that becomes

a business owner will tell you things

like "I wasn't prepared for marketing I

wasn't prepared for processing I wasn't

prepared for all the you know behind the

scenes admin stuff." I love all of that

That stuff is so much easier than I'm a

CPA in public accounting and I've never

hired somebody in my life I've never

been responsible for somebody else's

paycheck I would rather play on Canva

and make graphics than I would trying to

hire somebody

That is real That is very real And and

you know when you're new and you're good

at what you do hiring instantly becomes

like a you got to figure this out

because you need somebody else to do

this work And right business owners just

get confronted with how bad they are at

this process very quickly in a small

business So yeah I feel for you there

What about some of the highlights i mean

h how talk talk to me about growth I

know a big big moment for a lot of

entrepreneurs is I'm now making more

working for myself than I did working

for other people So was that a quick

like within a two years quick I actually

made uh a leap to double my revenues in

2020 is was my my my point uh my tip off

point But you know when I started

selling this Cass outsource bookkeeping

service in Charlotte North Carolina in

2011 it was unheard of You know this it

was unheard of Yeah And a lot of you're

a bookkeeper Aren't you a CPA and it's

like this is different This is more than

Right Right And what's this whole

outsource thing in this remote thing

yeah You're not going to come into our

office and log into our computer and

type everything in So this was about the

time QuickBooks Online was taking off

and and so it was a really really tough

sell but my Jerry Magcguire client which

was a restaurant group here in town

really was um great because I had uh you

know sort of the social proof that hey

this model works and I could take that

and then Iworked the hell out of it here

in town Um and that's kind of how I grew

organically and because they started

trusting well oh well if that restaurant

group is using you and saying it works

then this sounds like a cool idea Um so

that is how I grew organically And then

um of course over the course of time and

then hitting 2020 I started growing

outside of Charlotte uh exponentially So

uh thank you to the pandemic right

because the pandemic made my business

model I was going to ask was that

additional services related to pandemic

like employee retention credit PPP

funding anything like that or what was

it about 2020 that just doubled

everything people realized they didn't

know what the hell they were doing right

they were like "What's a P&L oh my god

like the PPP is asking for a P&L It's

asking for a schedule C It's like I

don't know what this stuff is I better

get a hold of my

finances And um that's when I think

people started paying attention to uh

I'm not going to make bookkeeping like

the last thing I'm going to make it in

the top three And people really wanted

to get a hold of their finances At least

that was my experience Um but yeah I

mean the highlights were for me have

been the growth the consistent growth Um

and no it didn't all come at once right

it's taken me at least 10 years to hit a

point where if I wanted to even sell

that I was comfortable with

Okay 10 plus years Yeah 10 plus years

And along that way how has your your

picture of a target client an ideal

client uh how has that grown and shifted

too oh massively shifted Um I tell the

story of I fired a client at two deeper

weekends ago at the table At the table

during one of our receptions because

someone there gave me the guts to do it

But uh Deeper Weekend is our uh our

annual conference for those of the you

that don't know But um I was taking

anybody that would pay me right that's

what we do sometimes as entrepreneurs

Like "Oh you want to pay me to do what

oh I can do that Oh I can do that too Oh

I can do that." So I wasn't niching

right i was like "Oh you want to pay me

i'll figure out how to do it." But the

biggest mistake I made was um the

biggest client I had for several years a

good five years my highest paying client

ended up being I think he was a

narcissist He was definitely became a

pompous a-hole I don't know if I can

cuss on here Um over the course of this

five years and I would just turn the

cheek I would turn the cheek as to how

he was talking to me my

employees And you know it got to a point

where we just had it out It was

literally like the week of Deeper

Weekend And I went there and I was

sharing with one of our colleagues what

happened He's like "You need to fire him

and you need to fire him right now." So

I like crafted this email because I

couldn't have had the guts to do it

alone because I'm like "This is a lot of

money Oh my god I'm gonna fire this guy

and this is a big chunk of my you know

revenue." And I did it over email And

not only did it feel amazing but I felt

like God the universe whatever you

believe in just

refilled that missing revenue over the

next few months And I was like okay this

is proof that not everyone is meant to

be your client And when you let go of

the ones that

aren't the good ones will come in I mean

this is after you doubled your revenue

through 2020 This is about 2022 then

that you're talking about here Yes So I

did have a little you know we always say

I'll let them go once the revenue is

there to let them go But then once the

revenue is there we get used to that too

And we like well it's not really that

bad That's right That's right And it's

kind of like saying I'll budget to save

once I have more money It's like well no

you got to start you gota you got to

make those boundaries now and then the

revenue will fill in afterwards So and I

had to go and apologize to my team

because I said you know my core values

respect is one of them right i said team

I let you down I let you down I I let

this man disrespect us for years talking

about the shift in the business too So

you said that you do advisory now How

has that how have you identified that as

a a core function that you want to sell

and and what's that look like today you

know Barrett I think that we at least a

lot of us in in in our group we don't

really we use sort of the process as the

means like you know the tax return or

the bookkeeping But what I really really

enjoy is helping entrepreneurs come up

with the aha moment talking them through

their P&L Can I hire an employee can I

buy a piece of equipment and it's what

really makes us valuable Even in the

world of AI it's always going to make us

valuable Um and so I started just

organically talking to people and I'm

like I should make this a

service right a coaching kind of service

and and it works It works and people

want it and um I probably don't sell it

enough but that's kind of the direction

I want to go is adding even more of the

advisory piece So I mean what's that

look like for for PICPA i mean a lot of

companies will do monthly bookkeeping or

quarterly bookkeeping and send an email

or send a couple numbers or something

like that and just say it's done Others

will have a meeting but it's like going

over the minors and things like that If

it if the meeting actually ends up

happening what's that look like how is

that different for a select number of

your clients that's probably different

from how you treat the other of your 75

Yeah I mean more um more personal

attention you know more going through

some of the metrics or KPIs Um you know

I there's there's a software Fathom you

know that we are always talking about in

our group that I haven't yet pulled the

plug on but I'd like to be able to get a

software like that that will help me

cater to say my top five clients and

come up with these great reports that um

that our clients can understand in how

to use these numbers right in in running

their business Right now I'd say we're

we fall a little short in terms of we're

just maybe having a quarterly meeting

right or we are sending the financials

with a few like hey you know office

supplies was high kind of thing But I

want to move more in the direction of

how can I create a VIP service a

five-star service for my top five or 10

clients and use a software to help me do

that and have more personal attention

which that's kind of work what I'm

working on in 2025 Okay cool So we'll

come back to that then uh because I'm

I'm definitely interested in hearing

your renewed vision for the company uh

since you've passed on this acquisition

And so let's get into the acquisition

now at this point So

um who approached whom how did that go

down you know talk me through just a

little bit of where your mindset was

This is early 24 I think this Yes this

is

early January 24 maybe even very end of

23 but I want to say beginning of 24 Um

I had a random broker CPA broker um not

one that we know

um that's very popular here in the

Southeast Um I had a random CPA broker

who's also he's in Atlanta so also in

the Southeast but um a just send me a a

um network It was a marketing email I

got a marketing email and for some

reason it caught my eye and I wrote him

back and this might have been um after

this was after I think our deeper

weekend uh conference where we talked

about sales scale grow or whatever and

so that was the 23 themes Yeah So I was

in the mindset right and so I got the I

got the marketing email I write this guy

back Don't even know who he is Look him

up on LinkedIn but I was like "Okay he

looks legit." And he said I say "Hey um

do you sell smaller

um bookkeeping cast firms?" Like you

know I'm not like going to make you a

million dollars but would you look at my

firm possibly And he writes me back and

he says "Absolutely." So we start this

conversation and immediately this guy is

like okay you have the perfect sellable

firm you are remote you have recurring

revenue you have uh longevity right

proof of longevity and like you have

processes in place like you have all the

elements you would be a perfect

candidate I'm like okay great so we go

through the process I we like he

interviews several people we go through

some interviews that they're like eh no

not a good fit And then they ended up

being a fit for a solo firm owner in

Atlanta who has the tax piece and he's

like I want to bring in the Cass

bookkeeping piece Mhm Great Okay And he

came up to Charlotte We had this great

lunch I'm like this is going to be a

great fit He's going to take care of my

employees He's going to take care of my

clients and um you know okay I'm going

to sell my firm and I can go pursue my

speaking consulting workshop business

right and I thought this is great and

um the off I got the offer I wanted

which is two times gross

revenue Okay so I got the offer I wanted

I knew I couldn't get more than that And

it was barely a um I didn't even think I

can get two times but I wasn't going to

do it if I couldn't get two

times So he says "Yeah I I you I will

pay you that I will pay for that." Wow

Okay Yeah Right After I sent him going

through the due diligence he's like

"I'll pay for

that." And I said "Man this is awesome."

Okay But just so you know two times

gross revenue by the time taxes were

taken out the broker fee was paid I I

would have put this away for retirement

But like oh hey Nisha like you got to

live too right so I was like this other

business that you're trying to build is

like building from the ground up So it's

not like I had

another revenue I didn't have another

income stream I'm not married right so I

didn't have another income stream So I

was like okay if you do this like let's

really think this through So I went

through the due diligence

process In that time I did my uh

explorative sbatical in Paris which I'm

getting ready to do again but I wanted

to go to Paris in the spring and I

wanted to live there So I left uh March

of last year and came back at the end of

May And so while I was gone I went

through the due diligence process So the

process happened over this three-month

period Yep And this guy is not

independently wealthy Um so nor did he

have the cash to pay me So he's like I

got to go to the bank to get the money

So he went to like Truist and uh Truist

has a great SBA um relationship right

department So he had to do like the SBA

loan and that was like two levels of due

diligence And we go through this whole

thing over three months and all the

paperwork and all the documents And we

get to the very end which is the week

that I'm coming home

And he says "Man got a little snafu."

And I'm like "Okay." And he says "Well

the SBA wants me to hold a 10year seller

finance note." And I said "What is what

do you mean like what's that?" and he

goes "Oh for 25% of the sales price." So

25% of the sales price I would have had

to wait on a 10-year note And I said

"Hell no." I go "Number one I may not be

alive in 10 years Number two you might

go out of business Number three 10 years

really?" Like let's think of the net

present value of money So I said "No no

unless you can change the banking deal

go to another bank and pay me full full

outright So that's where we left it at

that point I get home I'm home a week

and I got the news that my baby sister

died suddenly of a heart

attack and of course my world fell apart

and I said to myself "Oh my God like I

was saved If you're you know if you if

you believe in God I was like God you

saved me because if I had sold my

business and this happened in my family

I would have it's like it's like you

know my baby right i'm I'm giving my

baby away and my sister died and oh I'm

going to go into the deepest blackest

hole anyone could ever crawl into

Nothing to keep your mind off of it

Nothing to stay occupied That's right

And at that time my mind went blank You

know when you go through a tragic

situation this the neurons in your brain

just shut down They just shut down right

and so my brain was shut down I was like

I didn't even have the motivation to go

and try to build this other business

much less run my accounting firm dayto

day right so I was thankful and I went

back to the guy and I said "I am so

sorry." I said "I did not put you

through this wild goose chase for

nothing but this is what's happened in

my life and it's off the table It is off

the

table." And totally understanding This

guy even has reached out to me recently

but um I couldn't do it I couldn't do it

And then I after some introspection in

that summer um two months after my

sister died I got diagnosed with breast

cancer

Barrett And I thought man what is what

is happening in 2024 for me okay And

then just to add some comical humor to

this at the end of my last week of

radiation in December December 23rd is

when I rang the bell The very last week

I as I'm walking into radiation across

the hospital courtyard get hit by a

FedEx truck Literally I literally get

hit by a FedEx truck my body No broken

bones thank God But I'm like things come

in

threes That was my third And I said

"Thank you." And you know what you know

what my anchor was this whole time my

anchor was my firm Barrett

My anchor was my firm If I did not have

my firm I would have I would have I

would have gone into a deep spiral

depression

Yeah I mean your story is just

unbelievable Had I not been Had I not

been there along hearing you updating us

through the whole thing it'd be hard to

hard to fathom that

Um and I didn't know the piece about you

actually got your asking price though

That's what's that's what's just so

remarkable about it is so many business

owners walk away when they don't get

what they want for it And you did and

and you still Yeah And but here but

here's why other than the things that

happened to me subsequently what I

realized in all of that is I am going to

be 54 years old in May and so I'm like

oh my god I have all these years like if

it's if it's not broken why fix it if it

is giving me revenue and it is an asset

it is giving me revenue which can then

fund the side gig the niche high brand

why would I get rid of it Why i

understand you've been on a hiring

freeze for 3 years That probably has

something to do with why you would

consider selling in the first place But

yes leading up to that decision and and

taking this marketing email from this

broker what is going through your mind

of I want to do something different or

I'm getting restless or you know talk me

through that just a little bit leading

up to last year at this time of why I

wanted to sell Yeah Yeah What what

caused what were those feelings yeah

Great the hole that wasn't being filled

by your firm at this time I think I had

my

last my last big hiring snafu Um it was

bad and it was actually through a firm

that I shall not name It did not go well

It did not go well Um and it just took

me down of I am just tired of this I am

tired of trying to hire and not finding

good people and there aren't good people

And so I said to myself "This is as far

as I can go This is as far as I can go

cuz I'm not going to be able to hire

anyone else." And I believed that in my

mind at the time fully And I said "If

this is as high as I can go why not just

sell

now right?" And I I not that I love what

I do and and and and stuff but I thought

man I'm going to go out there and build

this other business Well hello Nisha

Like cash isn't growing on the trees

people aren't just out there hiring

speakers and hiring you know like like I

had this whole you know Disney World

idea in my mind of how I could pursue

this secondary business And if I sold my

accounting firm I'd have all this time

to do it Yeah So let's talk about that

other business just now And I know

you've published a book with that that's

on its fifth year Yes Edition that's

going to be coming out soon So

You've published a book about your

experience you started to talk speak

internationally you know what was that

doing for you running alongside running

the firm and you know what caused you to

shift and think I could do this

full-time

i would walk off stage and just realize

like man this stuff lights me up This

this this stuff lights me up This is the

part I love And and what's your main

content that you're talking about so my

main keynote is Courageous Dreamers Win

And I even start with my story of the

Jerry Maguire quitting Um and and and I

really want to uh encourage people to

not only dream big but to take the big

action right take the big action Um

because life's too short And so um I

started walking off these stages feeling

lit up like man this is what I want to

do now To pursue a speaking business is

so incredibly difficult I mean unless

you're a celebrity

excee you are scraping to get paid and

find the business and the work And so um

so so yeah I thought "Oh I can go do

this and I can pursue it and if I have

time to do it you know time is great

because then I can go get the business."

But that's not how it works right

there's got to be the demand and you've

got to be in demand and if you're not in

demand then you're kind of screwed So um

that's when I went back to thinking okay

well maybe I need to have this income so

that I can support this side right

yeah I think a lot of business owners I

mean my my reality when I went out and

started my company is I didn't have

enough work to fill a full-time job It

was like so there's only so much you can

do to make the phone ring And so you

know some of I've heard the advice for

if you walk out without business without

tons you know without your salary

replaced go get a part-time job

somewhere because that is going to keep

your mind occupied It's going to fund

you being able to make those decisions

to bring new business in And this is

kind of what you're saying here with the

speaking thing is you could not have

walked away from this a year ago and had

40 hours of time to fill with locking

down deals and even traveling you know

once a month twice a month whatever the

case might be So there's still a

development uh stage there that you you

weren't dealing with the reality or you

weren't aware until you went through

this process Oh wow I could do both of

these simultaneously for a little bit

longer I mean I would have gone back to

eating ramen noodles No lie I would have

been broke And I'm like why do I want to

go back to being broke at this juncture

of my life yeah Because as you said this

buyout would have gone straight into

future Yeah I would I because you

couldn't have lived off of this for 10

years No No And I thought okay that's

crazy So I realized okay I can actually

grow my firm a little bit more I I some

of the anxiety of hiring is going away

And I'm like well maybe I hire someone

in 2025 you know um and I could let's

see what else I can do Okay I mean talk

to me about the success of building the

other business though the the indicators

for for you up to that point like

speaking gigs h how that's going booking

different places you've traveled to Show

me some of the positive signals that

caused you to think I could do this

full-time Yeah Um I got accepted to

speak at Karen Brady's Women in Business

and Tech conference which is a big

conference in London in 23 Um I've

spoken like at different places here in

Charlotte with like Bank of America um I

I just did the North Carolina Government

Finance Officers Association and like

you know my largest audience yet which

was 300 people and just all the feedback

I'm getting and I'm getting paid for

these gigs u not all of them but a lot

of them and um I thought man this I got

something here right I got something

here now again the hustle to take that

it would take for me to get to replace

my income would absolutely absolutely

kill me like physically I would not be

able to handle the hustle and to pursue

a speaking business it would be a 40hour

week and I just I don't want to put the

time into that

I don't want to do it I don't want to do

it I mean what is that what's the focus

of that 40 hours look like to do that

full-time versus what you do now and how

many hours does it take to build it yeah

I could be pitching and pitching and

pitching and pitching and sending emails

and making phone calls and and it's kind

of like you know back in the beginning

days of of my accounting firm trying to

get accounting business and I'm like do

I really want to go back there when now

I can have my main income earner and

then do this on the side so I don't have

to like hustle for it so hard I think

when you have to hustle for something so

hard I maybe it doesn't become as

enjoyable Yeah Yeah And then you know

just the the the fortune last year of

this not happening when something like

the year you had in 24 happens and

you're supposed to be creative and

hustle and come up with all this other

stuff It's like you sit down there and

you're supposed to pitch and you're like

I can't even wrap my brain around what's

going on me right what's going on with

me right now It's like how could I say

that I'm an inspiration to go out and

tell people to so yeah totally get that

So um so the dream of speaking is still

on the table Correct That's that's just

something that's you know you're going

to run that alongside your accounting

firm now

Um when you made the decision and you're

going through all this stuff Talk to me

about how your firm was the anchor for

you Um other than just it's a steady

source of revenue How did you wake up to

to make the decisions and be there for

your clients through that process yeah

man I have an incredible client base and

that was one of the things that was kind

of heartbreaking to me of like I'm going

to get rid of these amazing clients And

let's take it a step further My two

incredible team members Tanya and Erica

shout out to them Um who've been with me

through thick and thin all these years

And I thought man these are if I could

replicate them I would be a

multi-million dollar firm Um they are

the example of the kind of employee that

we would want in an account in our firms

Um incredible And so they were gave me

the emotional support including my

clients You know I sent out this mass

email to everybody when my sister died I

sent out another mass email when I got

cancer And I'm like "Guys like this is

not my year and I just want you to know

that I'm going to be a little absent

but I'm here for you." And the the

feedback and the support that I got was

just incredible Barrett And I was like I

can't let that

go I can't let that go

Yeah I know that

I mean that's a positive thing On the

buying side it's a negative It's like

"Dad can't retire I can't get him to

stop." But how how I mean there's

there's the anchor There's the this is

my this helps me so much But then

there's also the side when it's down How

do you separate the performance of your

firm from your

own your own value your own perception

of how things are going too um because I

I know it can shore it up but it can

also become a detriment where it's just

like well when the firm's up I'm up When

the firm's down I'm down So how have how

have how have you been able to do that

interesting I'm not a great

compartmentalizer cuz you know one I'm a

woman but for some reason I've been able

to compartmentalize really really well

because I'm authentic and I'm vulnerable

enough to the like not I I share just

enough and I'm that I connect with my

people and I'm able to say I'm able to

show up I'm able to just show up and

stay up for you client or team member

but then when the laptop shut I can go

and cry in my bed or I can go for a long

walk and and be in my thoughts So I'm

able to compartmentalize and and I will

give myself credit for that because I'm

not a good compartmentalizer in general

but I have been able to do that with my

firm Okay

which I imagine is going you you can

send out the email to the clients and

you thankfully had very empathetic

clients but at some point through 2024

your clients are going to be like yeah

but we still have a work that need that

we're paying you for that you need to

get and the work got done that's the

difference because of my team right I

when you have a monthly bookkeeping

recurring revenue the work got done so

you know did I have to delay phone calls

sure they were so understanding of

Um but the work still got done and

that's the key Yeah Because it's not an

excuse it's a context This is the

context that we're in But you're not

sending that email every single month

when work continues to pile up It's like

"Nope sorry I'm dealing with cancer Your

books are going to have to wait until

next year." No And you know um No And

it's funny because when you have this

kind of business model and you have

processes set up the work can be done by

your employees right which is what

continued to happen Um and I just had to

log on to do some review There might

have been some like 911 phone calls but

for the most part I'm proud of the fact

that we were able to continue the

service without really any hiccups or

major delays Oh that's awesome to hear

Yeah Ha Has that been talk to me about

the mindset shift going into 2025 you

said you're coming back a little bit

from this hiring freeze that has to have

played a part in it right

because amazing employees even if it's

just one out of 10 will be like okay now

I get it This is worth doing Is that is

that what's causing you to look more

optimistically towards hiring in the

future yeah I was like okay Um you know

we are we are capped out So at various

points over the last 3 years I've had to

have this weight list situation And

we've lost some people for different

reasons And so when we lose a person I'm

off the weight list and then someone

comes to fill that space And I thought

you know

okay I think I'm ready emotionally

energetically to try to look for

somebody

again And then I can have more capacity

right i need the capacity to grow my

numbers but there's that fine line right

like I don't want to get too big because

then it's that whole um what's the

economic term when you you grow but then

you're you're losing more money at that

year I don't what's it called it's

called something I'm blanking on it too

right now But what I'm talking about

like I don't want to get so I don't want

to grow and hire so much like will one

person be enough will two people be

enough you know because at some point

the economies of scale that's it That's

Yep The economies of scale are gonna go

down and I'm like I am at this I'm at

this like bread and butter like I'm at

this great point right now and I don't

want to mess that up

Um how else has your energy towards the

firm been renewed in your decision to

stick with it um it's like your Okay

I'll liken it to

like the middle child that is now your

favorite

child You know what I mean it's the

middle child and it's like you never you

were kind of took her for granted a

little bit and now you're like "Oh my

god you you are at the top of my list

You are going to you're going to get

everything in the will." Like I just

love you so much and that's how I feel

about my firm So before the speaking was

the the fresh new thing and it's like uh

I got to do the stuff over here but now

you your perspective has shifted and

been like no the stuff over here in the

firm is what enables me to go to the

speaking and be able to say no to gigs

that don't you know aren't worth it and

stuff like that That's that's what

you're saying has happened now It's

given you a fresh new perspective on how

beneficial this is for you ultimately

Exactly Exactly

How have you shifted your business model

uh based off of you haven't sold it now

it only got you your asking price of two

times revenue You realize that's not

enough to retire but I imagine you're

going to want to sell your firm in the

future because you're not you're not the

type of person that's just going to walk

away and shut it down So how have you

decided if I'm going to dedicate another

10 years of my life here uh to this firm

i'm going to make sure it's worth three

times or four times or some some other

number in the future Interesting Yeah So

I did the math and I was like "Okay I'm

54 I don't feel 54 So that means I got a

lot of years you know God willing that I

want to work that I want to create."

Um and so I thought I'm going to put in

let's just say 8 to 10 really good years

into

this right and grow it And and and you

know one of the things I think I said

earlier uh was I wanted to add more into

the advisory aspect I was like I got a

lot of work I can do there A lot right

and so I'm like I'm not done with that

part of building my firm And so I want

to take these next several years to

build that to increase the value of my

firm I don't think I've gotten to the

val the maximum value that I could get

to What will be some of those indicators

let's say that you're coming up on seven

years and it's like could I do it now

versus you know the full 10 and you're

like no I'm still not there What are you

looking for now for indicators

um obviously energy energy the energy

level the you know time and investment I

want to put in you know I'll know did I

am I done am I done with that has my

revenue grown another two to three times

Um those will be some indicators for me

to to be like all right now is a good

time to like dip out Um I know you know

just go back to the acquisition a little

bit I know that the broker probably

bought you brought you other offers

besides this this solo uh you know

parallel situation to you somebody else

running their own company looking at a

department So what are some of

the what are some of the deal breakers

for you for for acquisition back then

and then es and then now because I know

you know private equity will give you

what you want for your firm you want

three times Sure we'll give you three

times and then The biggest thing for me

was trying to gauge culture Yeah Right

And and I had a weird situation where

there was a couple who owned it was a

real estate umbrella and they wanted to

diversify manager Yeah And they wanted

to diversify with services right like

financial advisory tax bookkeeping

really didn't know their angle but um

they made an they were going to make an

offer and the husband and wife invited

me to stay in their vacation home

Actually no that was their home on a

golf course in Florida so I could get to

know them better And that just weirded

me out It just weirded me out And I was

like nope You know they thought they

were whining and dining you and showing

you the other side you know how the

other half lives right or that's kind of

weird Are you going to ask me to put my

keys in the bowl like when I show up you

know I'm like you know so there were

just weird vibes I think that there like

you know if we just if we if we feel

from our gut and we think from our gut

our spirit we know And I just felt like

so many conversations were off So many

conversations are off Like nope you're

not going to be good for my baby Nope

you're not going to be good for my baby

Like you know and I just think that I

could get that in the first few

conversations And some people were like

"I'm not giving you two point Two

times." And I'm like "Well I'm already

got an offer for two times so easy."

Yeah Yeah That's an easy one Culture

though is harder Yeah Because you get

into it more You get into the discussion

more And I mean you were all the way up

to the signing table almost with this

guy So how do you measure that culture

and not

and you know going through that process

how do you know that if that they're not

just blowing smoke up your butt and

saying "Oh yeah We care about our

employees and our clients are the most

important thing and all that kind of

stuff Well you know I Google you know I

Googled the hell out of everybody Um I

got I got a lot of practice while I was

on like you know Bumble of how to Google

people but um you

know he came up for lunch I would always

want to meet the person in person had

several conversations asked a ton of

questions and these questions were not

just basic like you know um do you care

for employees yeah they were like "Yes I

do Give me examples like you know give

me examples of your firm Um tell me

about a time you took care of a client

situation that was a potential

negative." Like and and give me like

names And I mean of course people can

make this stuff up too but but the more

questions I asked that were deeper that

were not met with resistance or um

frustration I knew that I I can tell

right like hey this person's

blowing smoke or not

Um I mean our time's almost up and that

went quick as expected It did Oh my god

Was there anything else that you wanted

to share Nisha just about this process

or warnings or you know encouragement to

other business owners out there uh that

that we haven't touched on yet yeah You

know I would say number one just go with

your gut Because I asked myself this

question And I said "Nies what if this

was a PE firm and they wanted to give

you I don't

know three or four times ridiculous

amount." Yeah Yeah Right Right Yeah Just

shut up and walk away We'll do whatever

we want with it I think that I still

would have said no And the reason I

would have is because I care too much

about my people I care way too much

about my people And

so my gut my gut always leads me right

And so I would say to people go with

your gut Don't go with the first

offer and don't go for just the biggest

offer right cuz um you know we hear

these stories of where they take your

firm and they just blow it up into a

million

pieces I think that would be

heartbreaking to me Yeah for sure All

right I got to ask a tough follow-up

question If you don't have an answer yet

that's fine But if you care about your

people are you taking steps that over

the next 8 to 10 years you might

identify an internal successor to the

firm

i have talked about that with one of my

people And here's what's interesting My

my my two people my neither one of them

are CPAs but they are probably outwork

and outsmart any CPA that I've ever

hired And um it's a

possibility It's a possibility Yeah

my director of operations would be a

possibility if that's something she

wanted Um absolutely North Carolina

though rules is 100% CPA ownership for a

firm So you guys would have to drop the

CPA firm title in order to rebrand and

all of that which we don't really even

operate as a CPA firm right we're booked

You guys aren't doing reviews audits or

anything like that No Oh and I'm just

irritated because we can't be a fun I I

told you that we can't be a fun firm

name like the green abacus right but

um unless you become a Maryland CPA firm

you can become a non-resident Maryland

CPA firm Name yourself whatever you want

Yeah No Barrett that's a great question

because that's a possibility Absolutely

and and you know should something happen

to me that's that's the the unspoken

side of that is my son would actually go

this way get my firm and then he

couldn't run it because he's not a CPA

So it's like these are things I've I

thought about right these are all things

I've thought about Okay good Good to

hear Yeah All right Anything further

before we jump in the lightning round no

man That was a great conversation

Barrett I appreciate you sharing It's

good to hear the perspective Like I said

I've gotten perspective from business

owners that have sold but not so much

about the business owners that decided

not to yet So I appreciate it So all

right let's jump into the lightning

round So first question is going to be

coffee or tea And how do you like it

coffee And I like it caramel which means

a little bit of sugar a little bit of

half and half Okay awesome Uh pie or

cake and do you have a favorite kind

well I would say pie because of my last

one cake and German chocolate Okay All

right Yep What you had do you still have

your podcast or you had a podcast piece

of the pie I think Yeah I rebranded it

but Yeah Yeah

Okay Um what is a common belief among

entrepreneurs that you would want to

challenge

that you can work less hours than

corporate America

so they believe so it's like this 4hour

work week ferris thing I can just cruise

and passive income will come to me

freely Yeah Okay Yeah You're not selling

it Nisha But that is the reality So you

got to face up to it So I like it Uh

what is your favorite holiday and why i

love let me think about this What do I

love i love Christmas Although it's so

stressful It's weird I think I love the

feelings

around Christmas and the decorations and

the gatherings and sort of the love and

light that come out of that holiday Okay

awesome Are you a morning person or a

night person and do you have a favorite

routine can I say neither because I'm

not Yeah I've been getting that a lot

lately I get up at 8 am No I get at 7 am

maybe eight which is late for a lot of

people And I go to bed by like 9 or 10

So I'm

neither I'm

neither a routine Do you have a favorite

routine either way yes I love to get up

I have started doing like a prayer time

I I work out in the morning which I love

Gets me going Um at night I love

Netflixing and chilling watching a cool

movie or documentary And I love reading

at night So one of those sounds good

Yeah I know that question kind of weighs

towards the whole unless you know sleep

when you're dead you should only be

getting four or five hours of sleep as

an entrepreneur And I'm like you can be

a night person and still go to bed at

like 10 o'clock That's just I need my

eight hours of sleep Yeah good Okay

awesome Um what is one thing that you

would want your successor to remember

you for that I left the world and my

firm in a better place And uh where are

you finding creativity right now oh my

gosh And everything So I'm getting ready

to go back to Paris which is my like

like sensory overload city that I love

so much that speaks to my soul And um I

go there and I just start creating

Things just come to me Um but I find

creativity just every day like outside

in nature especially if I'm going on a

walk and that's why I need all these

other things that I'm doing because it

just helps me create Create Cool Was was

last year your first Paris trip or had

you been there it was my third Uh yeah

That I did long term Yeah Nice And

anything specific about the two to three

months that you love about that i get to

I've made friends out there Okay cool

and expats as well as um natives And so

it gives me like you know an anchor

there when I'm there And um it just

getting I tell people get outside of

your environment It doesn't have to be

as extravagant as going to Paris but

getting outside of your environment

helps you like your brain just open up

to creativity And that's a working

vacation for you Yeah I do It's not like

you take three months off from the

company you're still involved in it but

it's a different context a different

perspective Yeah different hours right

i'll be like "Yo my hours are shortened

and here's what I'm doing." It's a good

point You got to get everything to your

team probably before they're even awake

so that they can work on it Yeah Good

Good I like it Um and other than the

Paris trip what do you have coming up

this next year that's got you really

excited or maybe just that I'm not going

to say limit it Yeah know that but also

like what can I come up with in in

creating so um speaking to the advisory

part of my firm which I really really

want to focus on this year and what that

looks like right what what's that going

to look like um and then um just

creating more with the niche high brand

right like whether it's more workshops

or um another speech or or that sort of

thing so yeah yeah okay awesome and

Nisha where can people go to find out

more about you yeah Um I hang out on

Instagram at Nisharapai Napa P AI I'm on

LinkedIn at Nishapai CPA Um I also have

a website www.nishapai.com

Okay Awesome Well Nisha I really

appreciate you just sharing your

experience with me uh and my audience

and I can't thank you enough for for

letting this happen I adore you Thank

you Thank you Thank you This is so fun I

felt like we could talk for so much

longer but thank you I appreciate that

We'll definitely have to have you on in

the future You've been listening to the

Art of Succession podcast with your host

Barrett Young Twice a month we'll bring

you interviews sharing the successes and

challenges from business owners with

their own succession stories The Art of

Succession is sponsored by GWCPA and is

provided forformational purposes only

Before engaging in any transaction you

should consult your own adviser If

you've enjoyed this episode please share

it with others