The Art of Succession

The Art of Succession - Lesle Lane - Full audio part 01 - V0.mp3

[00:00:00.08] What's coming up in the future doesn't frighten me as much as maybe what it should. Maybe I should have a healthy fear.

[00:00:07.08] How did you shift and say you're an awesome photographer? How do you say no? I need to have other photographers that are not as awesome as me yet.

[00:00:14.40] Necessity [00:00:15.00] is the mother of invention. I need to make more money and work less. It's just that simple I need to. When [00:00:30.00] black and white film changed to color film, you could no longer process it at home. [00:00:45.00] My grandparents were pioneers, my parents were pioneers. And now, as I'm approaching yet another disruptor in our industry.

[00:00:53.16] I know in all professions there's always a tendency to say, well, AI can never do what I do. I want to hear? Do you [00:01:00.00] have an approach to AI that says no? Photographers who are using AI for this are going to be here 40 years from now.

[00:01:08.07] They need to be known, liked and trusted by their customers when you walk in to meet your financial [00:01:15.00] advisor, if he doesn't look like the picture on the website, you are immediately not going to trust him.

[00:01:23.43] Welcome to the Art of succession podcast with Barrett Young. Join us as we explore the strategies, stories and insights [00:01:30.00] that shape the journey of leadership, transitions and business success. No matter where you find yourself along the journey, this is the podcast where you'll find the tools to make it happen.

[00:01:38.23] My name is Barrett Young and this is the Art of succession podcast. My guest today is Lesley Lane, founder and lead photographer [00:01:45.00] for studio 13. Lesley follows in the footsteps of her grandfather, both parents and her stepfather in the world of professional photography. And today we're going to hear her story of legacy, The innovation and entrepreneurship. Leslie, welcome [00:02:00.00] to the Art of succession.

[00:02:01.30] Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure.

[00:02:03.38] Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation. So third generation photographer, which is very impressive to have that kind of legacy in the family. We'll get into that. Um, but I'm kind of wondering, Leslie, what brings [00:02:15.00] you to the art of succession today? What do you want my listeners like? The biggest takeaway for them from our conversation would be what?

[00:02:22.70] Well, I think that small business owners, especially when you're in a solopreneur, a lot of people call it that photography, [00:02:30.00] videography, graphic design. They don't really know how to plan for their future in this field. And my stepdad did not do a great job at planning when I took over his business. And I just really think that [00:02:45.00] there are ways that we can do it that are really relevant to the times, that we can just get the creatives to be more profitable and more business minded so that we can think about business before creativity, [00:03:00.00] or at least at the same time. And I just think it's something that in these creative fields, a lot of business owners don't see themselves as business owners. So I'm hoping that we can translate that, because I definitely see myself as a business owner first [00:03:15.00] and a photographer second. And so I would love it if my fellow creatives would really step up and just listen to your podcast, think about their own business in different ways.

[00:03:26.10] Yeah, I mean, I love that just speaking to your profession. Mine [00:03:30.00] is similar, you know, CPA profession. It's like, well, I am my business. So I have these relationships and when I'm gone, the relationships are gone. So I'm sure it's like photographers just see. No, I love taking pictures and I don't know how to teach this. It's hard enough to bring in money to feed my [00:03:45.00] family, much less build a team and everything. So I'm really looking forward to just your thoughts on this whole conversation. So you have got an amazing write up on your website. People can find that in the show notes about your family history and everything. But I mean, [00:04:00.00] give me the snapshot of 60 plus years, 70 years. I think of photography in the family.

[00:04:08.93] Sure. So it all started with my grandfather. It starts out actually quite sad. Um, my grandfather was [00:04:15.00] abused by his stepfather, and during the depression, he ran away from home to get away from that abuse. And, um, you know, back then, there were no child protective services. There was no place for him to go. He was an eighth grader at the time, and so [00:04:30.00] he had to find work. And nobody was really going to take an eighth grader very seriously at the time. And so he started traveling with, uh, nomadic people that would go from town to town selling their goods and services. And one of the people that was in that [00:04:45.00] nomadic tribe was photographers. And so they would go into a town and they would take pictures, and then they'd leave and get the film processed, and then they would come back to that town two weeks later and deliver the goods. And so that's how my [00:05:00.00] grandfather learned how to be a photographer. And years passed. He was about 24 years old when he came back to a place in Florida. Perry, Florida. And he was charged with taking an engagement portrait of a beautiful woman, a daughter of a sawmill owner. [00:05:15.00] And she was 19. And he went in and he took her photograph. And two weeks later, when he came back, he got that young lady, and they ran away together and they eloped. And so that's how my grandparents [00:05:30.00] got together. They were married 64 years.

[00:05:32.72] So it was obviously a well matched marriage. And it became very evident that, you know, traveling with a wife and soon to be children was not the way that they wanted to spend their marriage. And so they relocated [00:05:45.00] their, you know, several years into that, relocated to Columbus, Georgia, settled down and started Garrett's home of photography, and they grew that to a very, very profitable business. My mother came along, married [00:06:00.00] my biological father. At the time, that black and white film was transitioning to color film. And so my father did not really love shooting weddings. And so my father and my mother started Garrett and Lane Color Laboratories, [00:06:15.00] the first color processing outside of Rochester where Kodak was. And they grew that into a large multimillion dollar business with the help of my grandparents who invested in that business. And both of those business [00:06:30.00] ended up one selling the lab sold. And then my grandparent's business. They handed that over to my aunts. My parents ended up getting divorced. My mother and I moved to Indiana, which is where I am now, where she married Joe Maguire, [00:06:45.00] who was a commercial photographer. Maguire studio. And that's the business that I ended up taking over as a 21 year old. Not a good thing. Just telling all of your listeners. 21 year olds do not need to be taking over the family business. Do not [00:07:00.00] recommend zero stars. Um, so, uh, um, my.

[00:07:05.18] I think we just lost a couple listeners.

[00:07:07.26] Uh, my grand, uh, my stepfather did not plan for this succession. Um, he, uh, really [00:07:15.00] didn't want me taking over his business because girls needed to be wedding photographers. And I was, uh, not a fan of wedding photography. Still am not a fan of doing it. I can appreciate the art of it. And so I [00:07:30.00] ended up being his office manager and took over his bookkeeping and his business practices for him. Uh, before he was taken out of the business, uh, with a stroke. And so, uh, I took it over way too young. And that's how I ended up [00:07:45.00] being where I'm at today. Was taking over his business with my mother's assistance.

[00:07:50.02] Wow. I mean, legacy is definitely throughout your whole story there. And we're going to talk about expectations and legacy and everything like that. Talk about [00:08:00.00] I mean, you mentioned it with just like a color lab, how different that was at the time, that it needed a whole separate company to be able to process this and everything. Just talk about just changes that your your parents saw through those, those generations. [00:08:15.00] And what's happened in your profession over the past 80 years before you got into it.

[00:08:19.38] Oh my goodness. I mean, and everybody, you know, everybody's talking about AI as a future. Okay. And they're like, photographers are going to go out of business. Yeah. [00:08:30.00] Yeah they may. Because guess what? When black and white film changed to color film, you could no longer process it at home. So there were so many photographers that were processing their own film. [00:08:45.00] They either had a basement. That's what my grandparents were doing when I was young. I even knew because they still offered both black and white and color film. My parents did the same thing. Black and white and color film. The black and white film was processed [00:09:00.00] in the basement of my grandparents house. The color film had to be sent away. It was too complicated. It was too much of a process. And so photographers went out of business. So then you just fast forward a little bit to my stepfather's business, [00:09:15.00] where that was always corporate and commercial work, which is what I do now. He was processing E-6 film, which is basically Kodachrome. If you knew what that was in the time. It's a positive instead [00:09:30.00] of a negative. And then the clients would take that color film that positive, and they would scan it to digitize it.

[00:09:39.05] And then you had to take that digital image and put it on a printing press to [00:09:45.00] have that printed into a catalog or a brochure or an annual report or something like that. And so by the time I took over, I knew that there would be a time that film would not exist [00:10:00.00] for my industry because it had to be digitized and digital cameras were already a thing, even if they were the size of a trailer. But they were already in the process of being moved into [00:10:15.00] daily use. And so I always knew that the day that film would not exist for corporate photographers, because we were already digitizing film as it was. And so as we move now into, um, AI. Ai [00:10:30.00] has been part of Photoshop for decades. It's just getting better. It's just getting more user friendly. So these, you know, my parents were my grandparents were pioneers. My parents were pioneers. And now, [00:10:45.00] as I'm approaching yet another disruptor in our industry, I'm looking, I'm leaning, I'm looking into it. And I'm saying, how can I use this to benefit my business, to transform my business, to keep me moving forward, just [00:11:00.00] like the rest of my family has done all these years?

[00:11:03.79] Yeah. That's interesting. Um, because, I mean, it's very tempting when you see something that disruptive come along and just say, no, I'm out. And in a way, I mean, your grandfather said, I'm not the one to start a color lab. [00:11:15.00] It was your mom and your dad that did it. But do you think your grandfather was obviously a self-starter, running away from home and, you know, making it on his own and everything? Do you think that it was that legacy even back to him, of he was an entrepreneur [00:11:30.00] first and then a photographer or a business owner first and then a photographer. Do you think it's that perspective that you're talking about that causes you to look at this like opportunity, not as doom and gloom?

[00:11:41.19] Actually is interesting. My obviously my my grandfather [00:11:45.00] was a self-starter, but when it came to the business, it was his weakness. It was my grandmother's strength. So even back in the 50s and late 40s, my grandmother was running [00:12:00.00] that business at a time where women stayed home and did not work outside the home. My grandmother, she was the money. She was the finance. She was the person that managed the employees because it wasn't his strength. And [00:12:15.00] so they found a way to work together to shore each other up where she wasn't an artist, you know, she wasn't a creative. And, um, then my parents came together, and my stepfather, uh, was [00:12:30.00] a business person, but he wasn't really always a great people person. He had a very big personality. And he was an artist. And his work his way, the way he liked it. And he would argue with the customers [00:12:45.00] and he would tick people off. And then he married my mother, who is a people person, and she was the business development and she was the sales person, and she was the account executive to smooth over my stepfather's rough edges. [00:13:00.00] And so in business, you've got to have it all. And I'm very, very fortunate that because I was raised with my stepfather's little bristly personality and my mom's sales, that I got both sides of that coin, that [00:13:15.00] I could be both creative and business. Um, I just I feel like I'm kind of an oddity in, in the field that I really do enjoy and thrive on both. So, I don't know, I think I think I'm a culmination [00:13:30.00] of two generations before me and the things that I have heard about and witnessed in my lifetime with two different types of businesses. Well, three counting the lab. So it's just [00:13:45.00] I think it is a culmination. I do think that that what's coming up in the future doesn't frighten me as much as maybe what it should. Maybe I should have a healthy fear.

[00:13:56.93] So let's talk about just growing up in [00:14:00.00] this world and the family expectations. And like you said, you were not going to be the one to take over your step dad's company. Uh, because that wasn't women shot weddings, as you said. So just talk to me a little bit about [00:14:15.00] that. Did you grow up knowing what you wanted to do? Did you grow up knowing you absolutely didn't want to do this? How? Talk to me just a little bit about your development coming to this profession.

[00:14:25.57] Well, we worked, uh, both my grandparents and my parents ran the business [00:14:30.00] out of our home. And so, uh, what they did was our basement was a lab. We had black and white processing, color processing. E-6 processing. We also had color print and black and white print. So we had five labs in our basement. And then [00:14:45.00] the first floor was always the door that the clients came into. It was where the receptionist sat. We had a team of ten when I was a child. That is also where our portrait studio was. And then we had a reception area and then we had a break room [00:15:00.00] on the first floor. And then our second level was our home. And so that was where I was allowed to wear pajamas. That was where I was allowed to walk around barefooted. Um, because there was a dress code. The moment I stepped out onto the [00:15:15.00] staircase to come downstairs, I was expected, no matter how old I was, to be dressed professionally, because I would be seeing clients, I would be talking to clients. And it was a daily part of my interaction. I was friends with the employees. I knew who [00:15:30.00] everyone was, and there was just no negotiating with my parents on that. Um, I was to be professional.

[00:15:38.79] I was it didn't matter that I was ten years old. I was still expected to speak as if I worked at [00:15:45.00] that business. And I think it set me up for success in life because of that. So did I want to do it? There certainly was an expectation, but I feel like that because I got my first camera when I was six and I loved it. I think [00:16:00.00] that I did know that I was going to be a part of this industry. I have a vision for it. I've had it since I was a very young person, but mainly I got bored going out with my parents all the time and not having a camera. And so, I mean, they they [00:16:15.00] are both both my stepfather and my mother. Um, they used to joke all the time that they were amateurs, because amateur comes from the Latin derivative of to love. And both of them had a love of photography that even when they weren't working in [00:16:30.00] the field, they wanted to go and shoot more. So that also makes me a little bit different. I don't pick a camera up much when I'm not working, as I'm sure accountants don't really do taxes while they're on vacation. Um.

[00:16:44.91] You [00:16:45.00] haven't met the accountants I know.

[00:16:47.07] Oh. Oh, okay. Well, that's good to know. Um, so I love my.

[00:16:50.67] Spreadsheets, whether it's a Monday through Friday or not, so.

[00:16:53.51] Oh.

[00:16:53.87] That's awesome. That's awesome. So, um, I think I did know that I was going to be in it, but I'll tell [00:17:00.00] you, I was not going to be a wedding photographer. I was going to quit if that became my only choice. I just don't have the temperament for it. And I think that everyone that's in some form of creative [00:17:15.00] business, they need to know themselves. And I just don't have the temperament to deal with touchy feely photography. I like corporate work. I like to be in industry, I like to be in manufacturing. And I like to, [00:17:30.00] you know, photograph buildings and construction sites, and I'm just a little grittier than that.

[00:17:36.42] I mean, obviously you've made those kind of choices. I think I read on your web page, your stepfather was looking forward to adding wedding photography [00:17:45.00] to the stable of what you guys would offer and everything. So is that normal and what you know, because I know hobbyist photographers looking to true amateurs looking to start making it a career are afraid to turn down any work. Is [00:18:00.00] that kind of specialization that niching? Is that normal in the early stages of professional photography, or is that even unique to your family and your legacy and what you'd seen?

[00:18:12.34] No, it is not unique. It is pretty common [00:18:15.00] that you will pick one or the other, because I feel like that. It's pretty natural because it's just it's a natural separation. Weddings, portraits, family portraits, senior portraits, [00:18:30.00] nights and weekends.

[00:18:31.89] Corporate schedule thing? Yeah.

[00:18:33.49] You know, corporate photography.

[00:18:35.25] Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, maybe some weekends if you're doing sunrises and sunsets or if you're trying to work at a facility that you want it empty when you shoot it. Um, so [00:18:45.00] it really it comes down to not just temperament but scheduling. And that's a lot of why amateurs come into portrait wedding work first, because they can do it while holding down a real job so they can ease themselves into it on [00:19:00.00] nights and weekends, where corporate photography is a little bit harder to keep a regular job while doing corporate photography.

[00:19:08.17] Feel free to defer if you don't want to, but I know, I think on their webpage you had two brothers that were like the [00:19:15.00] ideal person to step into to step dad's business.

[00:19:20.01] They are. They were the ideal candidates.

[00:19:22.57] My older, my oldest brother, he came up to Indiana, um, after he got married, and he was the first [00:19:30.00] in line. He actually lived at the studio while it was under construction because he could live there for free. And so he and his new bride came from Georgia, and they came to Indiana, having never really been in the snow or any [00:19:45.00] kind of cold weather. And they were living in a 100 year old house while it was under construction. So I would say that nobody really set them up for success in those circumstances. And because of my stepfather's bristly personality, they [00:20:00.00] just didn't make it. They just they didn't enjoy the business. They didn't like Indiana. And so they were very short lived. Um, and then several years later, my, my middle brother came up and he made it a long time. I think he made it 3 or 5 years that he stayed up [00:20:15.00] here in Indiana, loved it, had a great time, loved working for my dad, but he didn't want to stay in Indiana and he didn't want to run that business. So really, I was, you know, their last choice.

[00:20:28.79] At that time, were you already [00:20:30.00] working in the business, doing the admin side and all the.

[00:20:33.47] No, I didn't start the admin till I graduated from college, so that was when I was 21. Okay, so you were.

[00:20:38.63] Still a kid when the two older brothers.

[00:20:40.95] They're old. They're significantly older than I am. Um, gotcha. But, uh, so [00:20:45.00] 21 was when I started working at the business, and then 23 was when my stepfather got taken out. So I had two good years of, uh, doing the administration work. I also assisted my stepfather from time to time. The other assistants were busy. [00:21:00.00] Um, or if he felt like that, it was an easy enough job that a girl could do it. I'm being real here. I loved my stepfather, loved him, but he. He definitely had a problem with strong women. [00:21:15.00] Um, which is funny, because my mom makes me look look tame.

[00:21:19.63] Um, and just for, I mean, time frame context. This is this is around the mid 90s or early 90s?

[00:21:26.79] Yes.

[00:21:27.19] Early 90s. And this mindset is still there that women [00:21:30.00] shoot weddings.

[00:21:31.55] Well, and even now, um, there are not a lot of female commercial photographers. You know, when you when you have children and you want to have children, it makes it challenging. And if your spouse is not making [00:21:45.00] enough money for you to stay home, well, photography is not $1 million endeavor anymore. It was for my parents and my grandparents. They both, you know, were millionaires and and my stepfather died [00:22:00.00] a millionaire. I will probably not ever achieve that unless I can learn to save more faster. But it's really difficult for women to be commercial photographers and have children and be able to support the family financially. [00:22:15.00]

[00:22:15.03] Because they're raising the kids and everything during the week. And it's those nights and weekends that the husband's home and they can they can fit that in kind of thing. Well, yeah, because it's more seen as like a side gig or a hobby or something to supplement.

[00:22:28.86] Childcare, the cost [00:22:30.00] of childcare and how much you can make as a photographer. I mean, you're not going to pull in a ton of money, and the husband's going to look at you and say, so we made $500 this month because we took all your money and gave it [00:22:45.00] to childcare. That that balance of it's kind of like, I know a lot of teachers that after they have children, they they stay home because the cost of childcare is more than they can make as an educator. So those things have to be considered as a family. [00:23:00.00]

[00:23:00.70] Gotcha. Okay. Um, so you're working with your stepfather for two years?

[00:23:05.62] Yeah.

[00:23:05.94] You're doing you're running the business. Uh, if he's more of like. Well, no, you said he was very business minded, too.

[00:23:12.46] So he was very. Yeah.

[00:23:14.06] Did you. How did you learn [00:23:15.00] from him? I mean, he wouldn't let you be a photographer, but he's got to be teaching you this is the right way to run the business or.

[00:23:21.62] Yes.

[00:23:22.06] Yes.

[00:23:22.34] That's.

[00:23:22.86] Pull that out of him as.

[00:23:24.49] No. As the administrator, I was in charge of quoting. So writing the quotes, [00:23:30.00] not coming up with the quotes. My mom did, the quotes. She handed her notebook to me because there was no fax machine, there was no email. And so I had to type up the quotes on a typewriter, on an actual typewriter. Then, you [00:23:45.00] know, she would present the quotes to the client. Um, there did come a time that fax was involved, so we did fax quotes. I also did the invoicing. Um, I did the accounting and bookkeeping. Um, we had to use a ledger [00:24:00.00] and we had to do it all. Uh, there was an accounting breakdown where you had to break it all down and make it all balance, and I had to write all the checks and pay all the bills. Um, now, I was highly supervised because my stepfather, of course, [00:24:15.00] would not give me free rein. But yes, I was doing all that administrative work, um, for my parents for those two years. And then I was also assisting from time to time, and we had a huge studio on property. [00:24:30.00] So I had been on set watching my parents take pictures since I was six, when I moved up here.

[00:24:37.96] You said when you were ten or so going downstairs, there were about ten people on staff. What was the size of the company at this point?

[00:24:45.04] They [00:24:45.00] were grossing about 600,000 a year, um, with three different photographers, uh, two different lab technicians, an office manager or administrator. Before I came along, I know my stepfather had a set builder because they were building a good number [00:25:00.00] of sets. So, yeah, I mean, there there was a team of people, and the photographers would switch back and forth between being assistants and being photographers. It just depend on who was booking that day. The thing I loved about my step dad's business model was [00:25:15.00] the revenue stream had so many tributaries. I mean, there were so many ways to make money back then between different scaled photographers. Who was doing what kind of work between you made a profit on the film. [00:25:30.00] You made a profit on the processing, you made a profit on the prints. You know, we would do copy negatives where people would bring photographs in that you would then copy so that they could get duplicates of it because they lost the negative. There was just so many ways to make money [00:25:45.00] that just don't exist anymore. So I've had to find new revenue streams that, you know, make me more profitable and make the gross dollars I make larger than what they would be by myself.

[00:25:56.35] Part of the draw, I would imagine, of business photography is other [00:26:00.00] than the scheduling and everything is repeat customers. Is that right? I mean, ideally, if you're a wedding photographer, you're only going to shoot that bride and groom one time. You might do the wedding party and everything like that, but it's very much like a gig or a one off kind of [00:26:15.00] approach. You've got a lot of repeat business in.

[00:26:17.83] Yes we do. And and and wedding photography. Like I know photographers who they only do weddings. But then I have another wedding photographer that she does babies. Right. And so [00:26:30.00] she'll get the wedding and then she'll get the family afterwards. And so she grows with the family. Um, and she doesn't stop shooting until they become seniors in high school because she hates doing senior portraits. So she'll she'll start from the engagement [00:26:45.00] through junior year in high school. Um, so she'll get that repeat work. But for me, repeat work is critical. And also your repeat clients are also the ones that are the most likely to refer you. And so those referrals are a big, big [00:27:00.00] part of of our business growth.

[00:27:02.35] I mean, I have to ask it because your stepfather was intent on not the business, not going to you. But then he had a stroke when you were about about 23. And he's got other photographers. So was [00:27:15.00] there any consideration of bringing one of the employees, elevating them to ownership. I mean, how how did you get into that position? You admit 23 is not who should be running a business either.

[00:27:28.62] So it was very, very bumpy. [00:27:30.00] So, um, part of it was logistics. So my mother and stepfather, um, had actually gone down to Florida because he needed open heart surgery. And after not following his doctor's instructions [00:27:45.00] here in Indianapolis, they refused to do the surgery here. They said he was going to die or stroke out on the table, and that they would not be responsible for that. Um, and so being that my stepfather is very driven, um, he [00:28:00.00] had every intention of basically dying on the floor of the studio. Um, he wanted to die with a camera in his hand. It was his passion and his love. He never had any intention of ever quitting. So they went down to Mayo Clinic in [00:28:15.00] Jacksonville, Florida. And they did the surgery. And he indeed did stroke out. And so my mom was actually in Florida with him when it all happened. And so here I was, the office manager answering the phones. And one day, [00:28:30.00] um, my dad's assistant and the lab technician came up. The phone rang, and I said, Steve, this is Leslie. And they said, I need Joe to shoot a job. And I said, oh, and my my friend goes, [00:28:45.00] hey, put it on hold, put it on hold. And I'm like, what? And she goes, you can do it. I go, what? She goes, I'll take I'll teach you. Let's go do it. Ask him if there's going to be an art director on the job. I'm [00:29:00.00] like, excuse me, sir, is there going to be an art director on the job? He said, no, I need Joe to do it. I need Joe to go take care of it. I can't come down and Art direct that. I said, okay, just give me the instructions. I'll send Joe out next week. And so we got the job. I went out and shot the job. [00:29:15.00] My assistant, who became my assistant forever. Um, she taught me how to do it. We did it. We delivered the job. They had no idea that my dad didn't shoot it. And that's how I started.

[00:29:26.64] Nobody was on site to double check, so. No, they just got [00:29:30.00] the result. And they're like, Joe, great job as always.

[00:29:32.92] And they paid the bill. So.

[00:29:36.80] Oh man. Your parents are still down in Florida at this point. Then I mean, how did he recover down there? Did he end up [00:29:45.00] retiring down there? I mean.

[00:29:46.76] No, he ended up in unfortunately, he lost, um, all movement of one side of his body. And so he was wheelchair bound for the rest of his life. He lived about four years after that. My mom, she wasn't sold [00:30:00.00] that I could do it. I mean, I was too young. She wasn't sold, but she had to go back and forth, back and forth. You know, she had to be going between Florida and Indiana And, um, each time she tried to find [00:30:15.00] somebody else to take it over, and it just didn't work. They did. I mean, I had I had the passion for it. I had the drive for it. Um, it took me years. And in fact, to, to be very candid, this [00:30:30.00] business was not truly what I would call successful until about eight years ago because the transition was too rough. The disruptors were too many. [00:30:45.00] So I had the passion, I had the drive. And then digital photography came and I had to buy a $200,000 camera. And that's the way that's the only way back in 1997 that you could get [00:31:00.00] into digital photography. It was a humongous camera and a humongous investment, but I had my biggest clients say, you either buy that camera or I'm going to and I'm going to put you out of business. So I bought the camera to keep the client and that [00:31:15.00] cut things going. Status quo. But the investment was too much for the revenue. And so I never really got profitable. And then nine over 11 hit. You know, I don't remember if that was before or after. What was the year nine over 11 hit.

[00:31:30.67] 2001. [00:31:30.00]

[00:31:31.79] 2001. So it was after that we had a deep recession. Thank goodness it came back super fast. I mean, it really didn't last but about 12 to 18 months because photography and advertising [00:31:45.00] were the first to slow down and the first to speed up. Um, and so luckily it didn't last too terribly long. Um, and then you go into the transition of these big $200,000 cameras are now the size of your palm. Oh, look, it's a phone. [00:32:00.00] And all of a sudden, I've got to upgrade my equipment from this ginormous monstrosity to a smaller, faster piece of equipment, but it.

[00:32:10.86] Was just finished paying off to the next.

[00:32:13.66] But it was still 40 [00:32:15.00] grand to get the smaller bottle. And then people think, oh, I can shoot it myself. And actually that did not last a terribly long time. Except then you've got the Great Recession of oh nine, oh [00:32:30.00] eight and oh nine, and I decided that would be a great time to sell my parents studio, um, the, the building, because it was costing too much, and I decided I'd build a studio that was going to be half that much, and it still [00:32:45.00] wasn't enough. My revenue went down from a $300,000 a year business to a $75,000 a year business due to that deep recession. And so it just it was too much, [00:33:00.00] too fast, too many disrupters. And it was actually the disruptor of Covid that brought this business back. And I got divorced in the in the recession time too. But because of all the changes [00:33:15.00] in the industry, people had no longer thought that they could shoot it themselves. They really did know that they needed people to shoot it. Um, PBP funding and debt relief from the loans that they gave us, I was able to reconsolidate everything in the [00:33:30.00] business, streamline it, bring it into my home, take care of it so that I was making enough to be profitable between everything that they did. And then I ran into another incredible disruption that caused me to change it even [00:33:45.00] more. But I'm going to give myself a chance to breathe and let you ask questions.

[00:33:51.57] Yeah. Um, I mean, those those are massive external shifts in the industry over the past 30 years. Talk [00:34:00.00] to me just about being a 23 year old with 2 to 3 professional Photographers. Stepdads had a stroke. You can't fool everybody. Eventually those relationships are going to be clued in and everything. Talk to me about the internal, [00:34:15.00] uh, just changes and disruptions that that occurred to back then.

[00:34:20.68] Well, who in the world is going to take instruction from a 23 year old? I mean.

[00:34:24.24] I mean, if dad's got that attitude, then probably the people he's working with do too. Right.

[00:34:29.08] So we had [00:34:30.00] two other photographers. Uh, one was about 60, um, 63. And the other one was, if I was in my 20s, he must have been in his 40s, early 40s. And it did not take long at all before I found out that the gentleman that was in the early 40s [00:34:45.00] was stealing my business. So instead of shooting it and letting us bill it, he had rented a studio that he would then go in on the weekends and shoot for my clients. And luckily, one of the clients was, you know, a [00:35:00.00] good enough friend of my parents that they let me know. And so I had to let him go. And I had to do it, you know, as as a 20 something. And then the gentleman that was older, he was shooting for our biggest client. That's really [00:35:15.00] all he did was I would call it bread and butter work, product photography on a seamless background. And that client, the I'm sorry, I'm just laughing, thinking about it. The vice president of advertising, [00:35:30.00] uh, called me into his office, and I fell down the stairs getting to his office. Uh, I was all dressed up in my business suit, fell down the stairs. My shins were literally bleeding.

[00:35:41.64] I limp into his office and he says, sit down, young [00:35:45.00] lady. Now I understand. I went to prom with his son because he's been a client of my parents for years. So I know this man closely. I know that he is extremely forthright and he says, young lady, we [00:36:00.00] have a problem. And I said, okay. He said, I don't like how you're running this business. I need you to do better. And I said, okay, what do I need to do? And he laid it out for me, and he told me, this is how you need to treat your clients. This is how you [00:36:15.00] need to treat me. This is what I expect of you. And I want you to get up to speed so that you can shoot for us. And I'm like, okay. And so I immediately went back, made the changes that he asked me to make for his account. Will remain grateful to that [00:36:30.00] man for the rest of my life. He had a creative director that he's been sent down. Um, she didn't think I could do it. My assistant that worked for me for 30 years. She, uh, said to the creative director, she can do it. She will do it.

[00:36:44.31] And the creative [00:36:45.00] director and my assistant, they pulled me along. And I have had so many amazing people in my life that have believed in me. My mom did believe in me, but she knew I was too young. But she ended up, you know, [00:37:00.00] when she would come home, she would make me shoot and critique. I'm standing next to a light box with your mother. I don't recommend that either. She, as a bona fide master of photography in her own right, she has a critical eye that still is unmatched [00:37:15.00] to this day. I just sent her images on Monday for her to review, and so I would love to tell you that I came along because I'm just that good. But I didn't. I came along because people had faith in me and they demanded it of me. [00:37:30.00] But because I kept our largest account happy. And I did until that company actually closed. And that happened at the same time of the Great Recession. That's the reason my business tanked so badly, is I [00:37:45.00] lost that big account. But that big account, they inspired me and took my passion and helped me funnel it so that I could keep the business afloat.

[00:37:57.26] That's an amazing story to have a client who probably [00:38:00.00] should be firing you, but instead says no. There's potential here and mentors you as a client that that's just amazing.

[00:38:11.65] And that creative director, she ended up being the director [00:38:15.00] of advertising, and she is still one of my very best friends. I see her and talk to her on a regular basis, even though we don't work together anymore.

[00:38:23.37] I mean, we've definitely heard about some of the massive shifts and the, you know, the hardships and everything writing this thing over the past [00:38:30.00] 25, 30 years. Just talk to me about the highs for you that's kept you engaged through all that. That's not just been I have to do this because this was mom and step dad's legacy. But I love to do this, [00:38:45.00] and I can't see myself doing anything else because there is a lot of family guilt. When you take over a business, it's like, I can't let step dad down. You know, he's he's watching me kind of thing. So tell me about the highs.

[00:38:57.01] I'm really good at this. I am really [00:39:00.00] very good at photography. I see things, and when I see things and when I figure things out, and I can find a solution to a photographic problem that I know darn well nobody else can figure out, or I can [00:39:15.00] figure out how to coordinate a shoot. So I had to go into a manufacturing plant two weeks ago. We had to shoot 115 large basketball goals, glass reflective, and [00:39:30.00] we had to shoot them where they paint all of the goals, the ones that aren't glass.

[00:39:38.20] The boxes on them.

[00:39:39.56] The the rims. Yeah. You know, all those things. It is 105 degrees here in Indianapolis [00:39:45.00] that day, and it's 120 degrees in that factory. And nobody knew how to set it up. Nobody knew how to light glass inside a manufacturing plant so that you didn't have reflections in your glass and nobody knew how to organize [00:40:00.00] it. I did. I've been doing that since I was 23 years old, and my one of my very first jobs that I failed at miserably was shooting riot gear, the big shields that the policemen use. Totally clear. How [00:40:15.00] do you shoot that? Oh, that took me days to figure out how to shoot that. And so when you accomplish something and you figure it out as a 20 something year old, you figure it out how to do it, and then you build on that lesson to the [00:40:30.00] next lesson and the next lesson and the next lesson. And so each time I do something really hard, I can't get enough of it. I just can't, and I enjoy it. And one thing that I've not been very good at as [00:40:45.00] a photographer has been lifestyle photography. So if you see a hospital ad and there's two people happily playing pickleball, that is not a candid photograph. That is not something that somebody just walked up to the pickleball court [00:41:00.00] and took a picture. It is what I call controlled chaos.

[00:41:05.15] You have to figure out how to what lens you're going to use, how you're going to light it, what time of day to make it look natural. But it's not natural. And so that is something that [00:41:15.00] I've been working very hard at over the past three years, is to increase my ability to shoot lifestyle photography, because it's not my niche. I'm a control freak when it comes to photography. I like things that I can control. I like to control [00:41:30.00] the lighting. I like to control the product or the building or whatever it is. And so this week I had another opportunity to work on my lifestyle photography, and it rained while we were shooting and we had to shoot people outside all day long. And so we had [00:41:45.00] clear umbrellas brought to the set, and we shot it all outside with clear umbrellas as our props. We figured it out. The lighting was perfect. They were very relaxed, very casual looking, but they were [00:42:00.00] all posed and all not casual. And those were the pictures I sent off to my mom and said, look how good I did, mom, because I did it, I did. I did exactly what I wanted to do. They looked exactly like I wanted to. And this drive to continue improving, [00:42:15.00] I'm getting there. When I think I'm getting there, I'm getting there because I'm my hardest critic.

[00:42:21.94] So your studio 13 now. So you sold the other business?

[00:42:27.78] I sold the property. I had to sell.

[00:42:29.66] My parents [00:42:30.00] property. No, no, because my life has been such a entertaining story. When I got divorced, I went bankrupt. I lost everything in my divorce. I lost the name of my business. I lost my parents tax ID number. I lost my equipment. [00:42:45.00] I lost everything due to the recession and due to my divorce. And my mother had to buy my equipment out of the bankruptcy auction in order for me to continue. And you know, when you talk about why did you stay in [00:43:00.00] it? There have been two down points in my life where I almost quit. That was one. And my mom said, you can't quit. You're the best photographer in the family, and I'm not going to let you quit. And then there came a point before Covid [00:43:15.00] that I wasn't able to save money for retirement like I wanted. And I knew as a single person that I had to get on it, or I was going to be working until the day I died. And so I sent myself back to school to get [00:43:30.00] my MBA so that I could quit photography. And, um, the business paid for my MBA. And wouldn't you know, all the stuff I learned in business school, I was able to turn the business around and [00:43:45.00] through. And like I said, there's been other steps of that. But When that business turned around and it started making the kind of money I needed it to make again, the high from [00:44:00.00] succeeding at something that you struggled with so hard. There's just there's nothing like it. There's nothing like seeing your business do well.

[00:44:12.53] So, I mean, the MBA [00:44:15.00] made you fall back in love with photography. And you started our podcast saying you see yourself more as a business owner than a photographer, but you also know that you're an awesome photographer. Was it the MBA classes? I mean, what [00:44:30.00] what changes do you need to make in order to it can't just be. Well, then I landed one big client and everything was better. So what kind of changes did you have to make and reality did you have to face about how you were at running a business beforehand? [00:44:45.00]

[00:44:45.93] So remember the girl that told me I could do photography that that day that the phone rang and she said.

[00:44:53.72] We can do lifetime assistant.

[00:44:55.24] Yeah, my lifetime assistant. Um, she was the nana to my children. [00:45:00.00] She got cancer and she died in 25 days and everything changed. So I'd already gotten my MBA business was already turning around, business was already doing well, and then my right hand person [00:45:15.00] died. And my daughter said to me, she was a nurse. And she said, mom, I've watched you kill yourself with this business your whole life. We have an opportunity here for you to change. And she [00:45:30.00] said, I want to come on board with you for the next two years and help you figure out how to change this business so that you have a better work life balance. I'm sorry. I'm getting choked up. Um, and so that we can build this business [00:45:45.00] for the future and we can build it to pass on to somebody else. And so she did. And so the decision we made, my daughter and I and my now husband that I have was that we, um, I was starting [00:46:00.00] to get more business than what I could shoot on my own because I was networking, because I was out building those relationships, making sure that when people have a need, they thought of us getting the bigger jobs, landing the larger clients. And [00:46:15.00] so I started bringing on freelance photographers on as a 1099 employee so that they could start taking some of this work.

[00:46:23.43] My daughter and I started building manuals. Here's how you light this kind of job. Here's the camera you use. Here's the lens [00:46:30.00] you use. You know, here's where everything goes. Manuals and instruction, books and SOPs, standard operating procedures. And, um, all of our, uh, 1099 people have Non-competes and they have non-disclosures. [00:46:45.00] Closures, and I brought on new editors as 1099 employees. I brought on videographers and drone people. And so I have about a team of nine assistants, editors, drone and video people. I now have a sales person, [00:47:00.00] an administrator, and a social media person. Each one of those people being ten, 99 employees, each of them with their own job description of what they need to do. Many of my administrative people are stay at home moms, so [00:47:15.00] they come in and they work for me on a part time basis, so they don't have the gap in their resume. And if they want to go back into work at a later date, I become a great resource for them to move on after their children go to school. And so it has created [00:47:30.00] multiple revenue streams for me. It is by having these administrators come on. For me, it has taken so much off of my plate. I don't have to write the blogs anymore.

[00:47:39.54] I don't have to do the social media, the quoting and all of those things, and it's allowed me to strategize [00:47:45.00] more for my business than do the business. And so, um, you know, my entire life has been disruptions. Some disruptions have been catastrophic. Some disruptions have been personally [00:48:00.00] devastating, but have forced me to reinvent myself time and time again. And so this latest loss, grief, I knew I wanted to keep going. I knew that I didn't want to quit, [00:48:15.00] and that I wanted to build this business into something that I could find a successor that would purchase what I built and that I could teach everything that I've learned. I don't have a child that wants to take it over, and honestly, I'm kind of glad they don't, because [00:48:30.00] I think that if you're trying to deal with a child, you have expectations of what that child can and can't do. I think that's just natural weakness as a parent. You've you've known them, you've cultivated them. You know them for their best and their worst. And [00:48:45.00] I just would love to have somebody that I'm less familiar with, because I won't have any preconceived notions about what they can and can't do. So I think it's it's going to work out well.

[00:48:56.53] I mean, the insight from your daughter there [00:49:00.00] and coupled with the MBA degree that you'd finished, you've systematized your business, you've built a business separate from yourself. I mean, and that's foundational to building something that is valuable just other than those [00:49:15.00] two influences on there. I mean, did you come across somebody, did you read like E-myth or any kind of like material to give you this idea, or was it just. No, we just started writing everything down and built a brand outside [00:49:30.00] of.

[00:49:30.49] What I had to. I had to do so many reports. So when I was in school, when I got went back and got my MBA, I had to do so many critical analysis of businesses.

[00:49:43.12] Okay.

[00:49:43.84] From a marketing perspective, [00:49:45.00] from a business perspective, we had to strategize. And those were things I just wasn't doing in my business. And there are two other factors in this, in this transition. Um, my my husband now, he [00:50:00.00] also has an MBA and he works in corporate America. He has been an incredible asset, believed in me, believed in my vision, was even willing to pay for me to go to grad school if luckily I didn't have to ask him. But he's like, I agree, you need to. You need to do [00:50:15.00] this. And then back when my stepfather was taken out of the business and I was fumbling, um, there's no no easy way to put it. I was fumbling, I was stumbling, my mother tried to start what she called a cooperative [00:50:30.00] agreement, and she got three different photographers to sign on back in the 90s. They would bring their business to our studio and split the revenue with the business. Now, back then, what my mother offered [00:50:45.00] was she offered a studio, which was difficult for people to get, and it was big. We had a 4000 square foot studio. It was huge and equipment that was expensive and big and bulky [00:51:00.00] and cost prohibitive for people to buy. We had a lab so that they got their film processed and we kept a stock of film. We had a cold room that we kept thousands because you had to have thousands of different kinds of film, which was [00:51:15.00] again cost prohibitive, different speeds, different types, different color balances.

[00:51:20.67] It was just it was a massive undertaking. And, um, so she had all of those things to offer those photographers, and still she could not make it work. [00:51:30.00] One reason those photographers had to go out and find their own business, they had to go and find the work, and then mom had the resources for them to use to create the jobs that [00:51:45.00] they found. As photography has gone on and I've gone on in this business, finding work, delivering the work, doing the invoicing, running a business is what photographers hate to [00:52:00.00] do. They hate to edit. They hate to send out invoices. They have no idea how much money they're making. They don't create a profit and loss. They have no idea what their balance sheet is. Deductions. What are those? It's it's mind [00:52:15.00] boggling. And so what I offer my freelancers, I go and I find the work I quote, the work I assign the work to the right photographer for the job. They then send the job back to me where I [00:52:30.00] edit it, deliver it in a timely manner, send the invoicing and collect and the 1099 employee invoices me, I pay them in a timely manner, and the only thing that photographer has to do is shoot.

[00:52:42.89] They get to do the fun part. You've taken all [00:52:45.00] of the business development out. How did you let go of that part, though? Because I know that that's that's the hard part. You said your parents were amateurs, that they loved photography. You don't pick up a camera unless you're getting paid for it. In our profession, it's hard [00:53:00.00] to get somebody to shift from being the tax preparer to being the business owner. So how did you, other than necessity and getting kicked in the, you know, in the teeth and stuff, how did you shift and [00:53:15.00] say, you're an awesome photographer? How do you say, no, I need to have other photographers that are not as awesome as me yet out there, and I'm going to bring them.

[00:53:23.81] The business necessity is the mother of invention. Um, I need to make more money and [00:53:30.00] work less. It's just that simple. I need to have something that I can sell. I need an asset that's not me. Um, you know, most of the time when photographers retire, they sell their [00:53:45.00] client list, and that's all they have. And that's not worth, what, ten grand at the most, right? Um, I now have operating manuals. I have a board of directors. I have minutes from our meetings. I have, you know, nine people that are creating [00:54:00.00] revenue for my business, and I'm able to make money off of them. Now, one thing that does make me slightly different is that if you ever work with a photographic broker, which is kind of what this is, it's a brokering, um, situation. They pay their photographers [00:54:15.00] pennies. I mean, like, they don't make near enough money and I'm not doing that. I am insisting that my photographers, because I've got qualified people, I've got people know they're not quite as good as I am in some things, but in [00:54:30.00] some things they're better than me. So I hate event photography. Will not do it. It just rubs right up against weddings. And so I paid them because they're actually better at that than I am. I can't do video. He's he my two video. [00:54:45.00] People are better than I am. I can't do drones. Don't want to do drones. So I'm making sure that whatever work we're picking up, that the value is there, that the client sees value and all of this that we're bringing to [00:55:00.00] them. Because if they go out and get a photographer that doesn't bring them all of this, the processes, the procedures, they're getting less than. And so I don't I don't get every job because they can get some of it cheaper. But [00:55:15.00] when I get the job, I've got a great photographer, I've got a great team, I've got everything in place to deliver the value of a business that is photography, rather than just a photographer who's sometimes doing business. [00:55:30.00]

[00:55:30.12] Leslie, we've had it. This has been a great conversation. We're running out of time. I am going to ask you in a second if there's anything else, um, that I missed, that you wanted to hit on. But before we get there, I do want to talk because we've talked about shifts in your profession, and you did mention AI early [00:55:45.00] on. I know in all professions, there's always a tendency to say, well, AI can never do what I do. I want to hear, do you have an approach to AI that says no? Photographers who are using AI for this are [00:56:00.00] going to be here 40 years from now. Do you how do you approach it? What's your current thinking on it?

[00:56:06.55] If I if there are any photographers who are listening, my first bit of advice is make sure that you have clients, that transparency [00:56:15.00] and authenticity is a part of their business model. So lawyers, doctors, dentists, accountants, financial advisors, bankers because They [00:56:30.00] need to be known, liked and trusted by their customers. When you walk in to meet your financial advisor, if he doesn't look like the picture on the website, you are immediately not going [00:56:45.00] to trust him. They can't have that. And so I have, uh, particularly pushed a portion of my business towards professional services for just that reason. So headshot photography, which [00:57:00.00] I have now shot over me and my team has shot over 800 headshots this year alone, and it's only July and I've got I've got five days coming up in August where I'll be doing, I'll be [00:57:15.00] doing my traveling road show, doing more, about 300 more. That's the headshot. Photography is the first place where people are starting to really lose business because AI is doing an okay job. It's [00:57:30.00] doing it's taking a cell phone picture and it's turning it into 25 variations and it's okay. Um, if you're in a hurry and you only want to pay 75 bucks and you need that, you're not going to go get it done someplace else where you [00:57:45.00] can't get it done fast enough. So $75 will replace a cheap, adequate headshot. We charge 175 for our headshots to be authentic and transparent and to be edited properly. [00:58:00.00] And, um, so that price point difference is not a ton for what they're getting.

[00:58:09.05] I do see a time where my price point may have to decrease based on that. So [00:58:15.00] I am watching the market. I'm watching how much we can invest, and I'm watching that. So that's the first thing. Make sure your business is aligned with people who have like minded product. Photography is another place where people may think [00:58:30.00] that they can get away with AI, but retailers are pushing back and they're saying no. They're saying you have to show your customers what they're really getting. There is a truth in advertising here. And so I'm [00:58:45.00] actually my product photography work is increasing because retailers are not taking that and taking it lying down. So I just feel like that we've got to continue to keep our eyes open for where the most common places that AI [00:59:00.00] is going to take over, and we have to be ready for how we can transition it to where it's not okay for it to be AI. There are times it's going to be okay. You want to take a bride and groom and they wish they got [00:59:15.00] married in Paris. Put them right in front of that Eiffel Tower. We can do that all day long. Um, but I do think the commercial side of things, there's going to be less of the ability to change what's real because we're advertising. [00:59:30.00] That's what we do. We are advertising and marketing, and we need to be able to show the customer what's really there.

[00:59:37.12] Gotcha. Okay, so let's get into the lightning round. Um, coffee or tea? And how do you like it?

[00:59:42.64] Prepared tea. Hot.

[00:59:45.52] Okay. [00:59:45.00] Uh, milk or sugar or just. Just straight.

[00:59:49.28] Stevia. I'll do some stevia. Okay.

[00:59:52.00] All right. Um. Pie or cake? And do you have a favorite kind?

[00:59:55.52] I do cake all the way. Do not give me a pie unless it's pecan bourbon. Pecan [01:00:00.00] chocolate bourbon. I will eat that, um, cake all the way. Red velvet with lots of cream cheese icing, please.

[01:00:06.96] Mhm. I love a red velvet cake. Excellent. What is your favorite holiday and why?

[01:00:13.08] July 4th is my favorite holiday. [01:00:15.00]

[01:00:15.52] Um, and it's my husband's fault because his favorite holiday is July 4th, and he has taught me nobody gets depressed and nobody cries over the July 4th. So July 4th.

[01:00:26.51] No mix. No mixed feelings about that one? No. Nice. [01:00:30.00] Um. Do you consider yourself a morning person or a night person? And do you have a favorite routine?

[01:00:35.47] Yep. Morning. All the way. Uh, 530 Pure Barre class. Get home, get showered, be at my desk by 630.

[01:00:42.91] All right. Very good. Um, [01:00:45.00] what's a common belief among entrepreneurs that you would want to challenge?

[01:00:49.83] You know, I was thinking about this when I saw that question because I spent so much of my career thinking to myself, I just needed to work harder, work harder, work harder, [01:01:00.00] work harder. The reason you're not succeeding is because you're not working hard enough. And that was not correct. It caused a lot of mental anxiety for me that I wasn't good enough, that I wasn't doing enough in my business. And [01:01:15.00] I think that I'd like that to change, because what I've noticed since my daughter helped me three years ago make these monumental changes. Is that by freeing myself up from the administration [01:01:30.00] of the business, my strategies that I've been able to create because I have open mind space, I have free time in my brain that I can think about what I want for my [01:01:45.00] business. That has made so much of a difference in my business. And so I wish that we could normalize the entrepreneur who doesn't kill themselves by working themselves into the ground, because you still [01:02:00.00] need a brain capacity to keep your business moving forward. Yeah.

[01:02:06.14] I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much. What is one thing that you would want your successor to remember you for impact?

[01:02:13.78] I want to have an impact [01:02:15.00] on people's lives. Whether I'm taking their picture, whether I'm there. They're a client of mine, whether they're my freelancers. Every year we do a holiday party for everybody. That works for me. Even though they're not [01:02:30.00] payroll, I give everybody a bonus of the profits, even though they're not part of the business as far as monetary investment. My grandchildren, my children. And when I find a successor, I want to have an impact on that person's life, [01:02:45.00] not just because they're purchasing my business, but because I genuinely want to mentor them and I want to help them. I don't want anybody to suffer the way I've suffered in this life. And, you know, have people look at you and go, how do you stay so happy? [01:03:00.00] How do you stay so positive? Because I refuse to let what I've gone through in my life negatively impact those around me. So impact.

[01:03:10.14] All right. Thank you. I'm going to throw this one in there. It's not written down, but um, just with [01:03:15.00] third generation photographer, if you don't mind. Quickly. Grandfather, grandmother, mom, birth dad, stepdad, and even your assistant if you would want to. One [01:03:30.00] thing from each of them that has had the most positive impact on you.

[01:03:35.37] My grandfather was a pacifist. He didn't believe in fighting. And I don't believe with fighting with people. I can fight with life. But I don't believe in fighting with people. My [01:03:45.00] grandmother. Dear Lord, I stand on the shoulders of my mother and my grandmother. I don't even know where to start with my grandmother. So just everything. Um. My biological father. Pioneer. [01:04:00.00] Innovator. He had a series of businesses in his life. My mother. Fierce. She is fierce. She's a no bullshit kind of gal. And if you don't want to hear the truth, don't ask her. My stepfather. [01:04:15.00] I miss him terribly. Um, if I could have a meal with anyone, I would have a meal with my stepfather at this age. I would ask what he thinks of me. I would ask his forgiveness because I didn't understand how hard he worked. [01:04:30.00] I did not. I didn't have a clue. Everything he did to make a life for me and my mom. And then my assistant, Tina. I would just tell her I love her, I miss her, I miss her terribly every day. And, uh, it's not the same. It's [01:04:45.00] not the same without her. Um, even though I'm doing well, I just miss her so much. And I'm just so grateful that list of people, that list of people are the reason I'm here today. I'm so grateful.

[01:04:58.92] Thank you for entertaining [01:05:00.00] that question from me. Leslie, where are you finding creativity right now in your work or just in general?

[01:05:07.80] Travel. Travel has become my new obsession. My husband took me on my first trip to Europe [01:05:15.00] a while back. I don't even know how many years ago. And seeing through a different lens, um, has inspired me. We went back to Copenhagen last year, and this year I'm taking my children to Europe for the first time. [01:05:30.00] Just me and my two adult children. And every time I go to Europe and every time I take pictures in Europe, it inspires me. So I guess I do pick up a camera.

[01:05:39.43] Do you take the camera?

[01:05:41.31] But I only take it when I go to Europe. And so, um, the European [01:05:45.00] architecture, I shoot a lot of architecture here, and seeing the buildings and the architecture completely inspires me. I said in my first it was a Jesuit church in Lucerne, Switzerland, and [01:06:00.00] I sat there and I wept. That architecture was so beautiful, so magnificent. And to think how old that church was and how they had to build it compared to how we build things now. [01:06:15.00] That's my inspiration right now. Traveling.

[01:06:17.66] Awesome. Um, what do you have coming up in the next year that's got you really excited?

[01:06:22.98] Trying to avoid a recession. Hoping that the tariffs in this country and the [01:06:30.00] changes politically that are causing some economic unrest, don't undo everything that I'm doing. I'm trying to mitigate that because I've got a there's a company here in Indianapolis that helps people with modern sales techniques [01:06:45.00] of how to go out and train your salespeople and yourself to deal with businesses where now it's so easy to ghost people. You send an email. Certainly people don't answer their phones. And so I'm going to be training me. Um, [01:07:00.00] my sales person and my administrator on how to do business using more modern techniques to convert sales. So that's a big thing that we're going to really be working on in the next year and continuing to impress upon my [01:07:15.00] customers that have a national base, that they're not just Indianapolis local, that sending us to their different offices to update their headshots, to create a consistency across their brand is a worthwhile investment. I've got [01:07:30.00] several companies that have us do that, and I just feel like it's a value that we can give companies that I would really love to increase the number of companies that we do that for. Okay, great. Here's my goals right there.

[01:07:45.14] Um, [01:07:45.00] Leslie, where can people find out more about you?

[01:07:48.62] Studio 13 Online.com. That's our website. We're on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, um, both under my name, Leslie Lane, as well as studio 13. When [01:08:00.00] you go to my website, if you hit new business at the end where you say contact us, it goes to the new business email that comes straight to me. So if you have any questions, if you'd like to learn more, If you're interested in maybe being a successor, an apprentice, [01:08:15.00] um, you can reach me on my website.

[01:08:18.17] Very good. Thank you so much, Leslie. This has been a great conversation, as I expected it would be, and I really appreciate your time today.

[01:08:24.33] Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

[01:08:26.29] I hope that you've been enjoying part one of my discussion with Leslie [01:08:30.00] Lane. We're going to pick up part two of our discussion. We're going to continue her journey through today, and we're going to talk about the key pivot that caused her to see her business as something apart from her as a photographer. You can find that episode linked right here. We have [01:08:45.00] new episodes with business owners twice a month on the art of succession with their own succession stories. If you're interested in being a guest on the show, you can find that link down in the description below. If this episode has been beneficial to you, helped you in your business at all, I'd ask that you please share it with somebody [01:09:00.00] else. That really helps out the podcast, and I want to thank you for watching the Art of succession.