The Art of Succession

you cannot go into this without without

the utmost

confidence um that you're going to sell

it I was saying to these clients I'm

selling the firm I really strongly

suggest you stay with the firm and those

clients trusted me enough and trusted my

systems and my staff enough to say okay

we we'll stay and so they've stayed with

with firm how can we start and scale a

business around a very specific Focus

area and how can anyone build the system

necessary to create value within their

company under what circumstances would

you consider selling that business and

walking away my name is Barrett young

and this is the art of succession

podcast my guest today is Jillian sedot

founder of crowdfunding lawyers and the

organizer of last life ever today we're

going to hear from Jillian about the

action she took to build and scale a law

firm with a narrow Focus eventually

selling it for seven figures to a

competitor and how you can also build

the life and business of your dreams

Jillian welcome to the art of succession

thanks so much for having me Barrett I'm

glad to be here my pleasure so you are

an attorney um you sold your business

about four years ago I think you had

said yes that's right let's get into how

long had you been running that business

and what brought about the founding of

it I started uh I got my license my law

license in

2006 and I

actually started my Law Firm um three

months later in 200 in January 2007 I

started it at my kitchen table and just

went to every networking meeting in town

and and met as many people as I possibly

could in starting that business and we

grew it

from that kitchen table to two offices

and several millions of dollars per year

how long did it naturally take to morph

in that direction then after you founded

it in 2007 the very the very first case

that litigation case I was talking to

you about actually oddly enough was a

Securities fraud case I my my clients I

represented a group of clients that had

come to me and they had invested in a

winery and their investment in the

winery did not work out it turned out

that the management had grossly

mismanaged the funds that's really how I

learned so much about Securities Law and

I had mentioned I was pregnant I spent

that that year that those nine months

that I was pregnant just reading

Securities Law and learning Securities

Law so it did it didn't actually take

that long for me to

transition and then I started doing

speaking engagements for a lot of real

estate Educators just on how people

needed to raise Capital safely or or

their real estate Investments without

running into the law and so I mean that

first case you were on the investor side

and you saw how poorly it could be

handled and what could go wrong and then

eventually you ended up on the um the

you know the the crowdfunding side of it

so as you grew uh crowdfunding lawyer um

when did you actually start to Market it

that direction then how quickly and like

the domain name and this is what we do

we're longer taking trust work actually

I was approached in

2014 by another firm that was called

syndication lawyers and they asked if

they could merge and we merged uh and we

were syndication lawyers for a really

long time fast forward two years later

and one of the partners left the firm

and she actually took the name with me

we're talking about a law firm but this

this applies I think across the board is

that you want if you were looking for

succession in any business business what

you want to make sure that you have is a

name that can succeed and if you name

the brand after yourself which for a

long time my brand was named after

myself you have a you have a harder time

it's not impossible but you do have a

harder time trying to find somebody to

succeed you right so uh we we want to

that was what was really important to me

was to make sure that the business could

survive without me uh so I mean were you

were the the sole partner in it before

you merged then in

2014 that's right so 20 in

2014 it was just me what caused you to

merge in the first place because you

know six years later you'd you'd be a

you'd sell the company so was it a

desire to have Partners was it already

looking at wanting to move along and do

something different what what caused

that like kind of thinking it's so funny

uh I when when the senior partner of the

firm that I merged with came to me I was

actually very standoffish I was not

interested then I

realized when I was going to

events I was always running into them I

was I was seeing them all the time and

it just started seeming silly like we're

just we're just we're the two lawyers

here we're just competing with each

other we might as well just stop

competing with each other

and and merge and that's um that's how

that came about in

2018 and this had nothing to do with the

partnership and everything to just do

with the business in

2018 I remember just

being so completely burnt out like that

this business is running me I'm not

running this business and I just didn't

want to be that I I didn't want to do

that anymore so in 2018 I knew

something was going to have to change

sooner or later at that time one of the

other partners has had exited did the

other one retire or it was back to you

being 100% owner again well it was

actually was it was interesting so at so

by the time we fast forward to 2020

there were four Partners two Junior

Partners two senior I me and the other

senior partner the senior partner in our

operating agreement actually said it our

operating agreement laid out that he was

supposed to retire that year um you know

one of the things about law firms and I

think this is true of any Professional

Services firm is you don't want older

people hanging around too much uh that's

not to say anything negative about older

people because oftentimes they offer so

much value I still felt like he offered

a lot of value but the the problem is

they're so experienced everybody only

wants to talk to them and so they're

taking business away from the younger

Partners that's number one or you see

cognitive decline you wanted to change

the operating agreement and I had agreed

to I said I'll change the operating

agreement then he started doing some

weird sneaky stuff with changing the

operating agreement and I had to get a

mediator involved and the

mediator uh straight out told me that

this your partner does not have your

best interest at her uh he does not he's

not thinking of you he's only thinking

of himself I was not willing to listen I

admired this guy so much but what ended

up happening is he left his response was

then I'm leaving

that I'm going to go I'm going to take

my client list and go so yeah he took

them but I got to keep the name I got to

keep the systems I got to keep the I'll

just do more marketing right I'll get

more clients your partner split off took

half the firm and then you guys turned

to sell was selling not on your radar

before I mean or was it even was it at

the point where that conversation

wouldn't have even been able to happen

where you either sell it to him you exit

or say let's find an external buyer and

you'll take I'll take half or whatever

the case might be it sounds like Prett

he he was he was in such a

bad I don't know what happened I don't

know where in his mind things what

happened what changed where where things

went wrong I still don't to this

day he wanted me to give him

money for him to like get to to to taper

off off and to go out into the sunset

and I just wasn't willing to do that and

the number he asked me for I turned

around and said well I I'll just do that

why don't you just give me that money

and and you can continue the FM and that

wasn't an an option either um the other

thing is too I had been talking about he

we have to figure out an exit strategy

and I had I was very open with my

employees and him back in 20

2018 going forward and he and two of my

employees one day sat me down and told

me I was being very unfair to them

because I wasn't thinking about them in

me wanting to to exit um that it was uh

that they had families to take care of I

became a slave to my own business

essentially um and and I felt trapped I

was absolutely trapped so this was like

my great escap when he left kind

occurred to me when it happened until my

other partner Nancy had said to me I

want to be a stay-at-home mom and I

realized oh it's that simple you get to

decide guess who else gets to decide I

get to decide and this is what we're

deciding and and and then when it became

like that clear like I don't owe anybody

anything I owe I owe myself and my

family something and I owe my employees

something too but I don't owe them I

don't owe them all of me

and believe it or not all of the

employees have remained with the firm to

this day wow that is

remarkable yeah the the way I did it was

and this was really important to Nancy

too because Nancy my my my former

partner she she was going her her

intention was she might stay on for a

little while or part-time with whoever

acquired The Firm like and so my her

input was really really important to me

and she knew who the competition was

we'd met so many of them so we made a

list we made a priority list these are

the people we would we we believe we

would be willing to sell to in order of

which we would be willing to sell we're

going to go to them very quietly whisper

to them hey we're thinking about selling

would you be interested and we're go

we'll go in this order um and if we have

to we'll go to like that last person on

the list

and so the first person we called on the

list said yes so it worked out yeah like

I didn't I didn't have to go to the

number two person I just I literally uh

I called uh Nate it was I called Richard

I Knew Richard I said Richard would you

be interested in buying this he said let

me talk to Nate I had never really met

Nate before um and Nate um Nate was like

yeah we're gonna we're taking this were

they also doing crowdfunding just out of

Texas or were they looking to add this

as a wing to something like related to

it how how did that go down they've done

I mean they've done a beautiful job

they've actually expanded the business

quite a bit um and and really just taken

what we built and and and it made it

even better so so I mean selling a niche

business is like you said they need to

be an attorney to buy this company and

they need to to be

specialized I think it's it's you know

there's a lot of Doubt or concern about

niching in the first place because

you're like what if I don't find enough

clients to that are in this and now

you're talking about selling one but I

think that the risk is if you don't if

you don't specialize in your business

then a law firm's going to look at it

and say well you just do what we do you

do what everybody does and so I mean we

look at CPA firms that way we're going

to lowball you if we want to try or if

we have a relationship there we might

might consider acquisition but it's like

if you go out of business we'll just get

all your clients through marketing so

yeah well yeah I me specific yeah go

ahead it is one way to think about it

but like here's a perfect example I had

some pretty big names clients um famous

people you know and and so they were

they were getting my they were getting

my endorsement right like so I was

saying to these clients I'm selling the

firm I really strongly suggest you stay

with the firm and those clients trusted

me enough and trusted my systems and my

staff enough to say okay well we stay

and so they've stayed with with the firm

um so that was a huge part of it brand

awareness you know like um like that

again that this goes to say like the

name Jillian cenot might not make you

very go very far but a descriptive name

like crowdfunding lawyers it has it has

some it's sticky and it and and and we

built up a pretty good reputation the

other thing we had um was a system we

had systems you know and if you can sell

this if you can any business whether

it's a CPA business or a plumbing

business or Law Firm if you have the

system in place the system is sellable

because even if they say well we'll just

go out and Market to all your clients

anyhow not if I not if I sell it to

somebody else so you can either buy it

and get it and get the system and get

the name recognition and get The Client

List or you can work really hard to try

to steal those clients from whoever I do

sell this to because I'm G to sell it

like that was that's basically how you

have to how you have to go into this you

can't if you're trying to have a

succession plan and you're trying to

sell whatever business you have you

cannot go into this without without the

utmost

confidence um that you're going to sell

it because otherwise people will

you know people will smell your they'll

they'll think that as a matter of fact

Nate

um has gone to some other firms with the

with the intention of offering them you

know I'll acquire you and they've

they've all always like tipped it around

and now he's like well no I'm just I'll

just I'll just mark it around you so if

they don't if you don't come with some

kind of level of confidence you're not

going to you won't be

successful it's good so so how did you

um I mean Richard was doing crowdfunding

so he would have wanted to adopt your

systems then for his clients that he was

already doing this

with yeah he probably wouldn't want to

run two systems so how do you how do you

let a potential buyer know enough about

the system that you have without also

just giving it away and saying you know

giving them enough information that they

go and replicate it themselves to

actually keep value there until you're

acquired it would have taken longer to

build it than to just buy it um how did

you guys go about doing a valuation on

on the company in order to sell it we

didn't do much of an EV evaluation

because uh it was a hard sell right it

needed to be somebody who was super who

could take care of it who could make it

work and um and was qualified to do so I

mean I imagine through the process 2014

18 now 20 this idea of last life had

already been brewing in your mind had

you already started doing any kind of

coaching or any kind of Consulting

around this and did that make it easier

for you to emotionally walk away my

partner in that uh in last life ever

um it was funny he came and saw me speak

at an event in

Dallas and introduced himself and

whatever and later and he he had a he

had another podcast a real estate

podcast called the oldfashioned real

estate show where he and his partner

would sit around and drink old Fashions

and just talk about real estate

investing and I told him I loved the

concept of the show and that I was going

to be a guest on his podcast and he said

we don't have guests which to Stu

drinking old Fashions and talking about

real estate and I said yeah I'm going to

be your first guest I just was like that

bold and he's like okay we met Nashville

at another event and I I did just that I

was a guest on I was his first guest on

his podcast and we drank old Fashions he

his partner me Nancy and a bunch of

other people went out that night in

Nashville and he started telling me I

used to be a lawyer and I was bankruptcy

law and I got I got I I ended up with um

cancer

and I ended up having to file for Bank y

because of my cancer and I just realized

I'm not going to do this anymore I'm

done I'm not I'm not going to go back to

being a lawyer and stressing myself out

when clearly it didn't it didn't save me

from cancer right so he told it was his

idea his concept was last life ever and

he thought I just want to live uh I I

want to I want to help people live the

best version of their lives whatever

that means to them and I was like oh my

God I love that idea let me and and then

I pushed myself onto that

cont had lodged that I was like I'm just

going to push myself onto this too and

and he agreed he thought that was a good

idea uh and and we just had we had very

similar similar stories in the regards

of why we left the law and with last

life ever you know it's not look we have

five pillars it's what's your purpose

find your purpose develop good habits

habits so you can carry out that purpose

third you need to work towards Financial

Freedom and Independence I you know I

can talk all day long about how I was

burnt out on law but that law paid for a

lot of things and you know we do we do

have to make money yeah you want to do

all these amazing things money has to be

involved at some point in time um and

four how can I how can I take what I

have what I know all the things I've

been blessed with and turn them into

some kind of

amazing um new opportunity and what does

that look like and and so it's really

about reframing that and then resetting

your goals with that with that state of

mind one of my kids wants to be an actor

right and I he's 16 and and I've said to

him yeah you you should definitely

pursue that but let me tell you what you

should be doing in the meantime be a

plumber like I'm dead serious be a

plumber plumbers make great money you

can go out you can go out and learn the

trade like immediately and if you're

like the best plumber in town you will

always have business if you pem in place

of you know and and get a great name for

your the plum your plumbing business and

then you put a system in place where you

send text messages before you show up

and you tell people the name of the

plumber who's going to show up so that

you know young mothers with kids in the

house feel comfortable opening the door

for the the Plumber guy to come in

um and you can solve people's problems

right away and and well then you will be

employed for life and then you build

that system you sell that system and go

off and be an

actor all the things right so um yeah

like talk

about boring

businesses are the ones

that that make the money make the money

honey so you can do all those fun other

things

M

awesome um so you you've talked a little

bit about it you're still involved with

the two attorneys that bought

crowdfunding lawyer uh to this day you

still talk to them and you're not

involved in their business that business

necessarily um well actually I think you

had said you do you said to me Offline

that you are still doing consulting for

them is that right well not for the law

firm um I actually am doing mostly like

business mostly just business advice on

YouTube right now we haven't really done

much with it it's called

entrepreneur it's KN NE W in the middle

instead of um new uh so um yeah so we

just we just tell you exactly how to run

your business and how to how to do it

and uh we're we're hoping to started

having guests we just started that like

a maybe a month or two ago and we

haven't really done a whole lot with it

but that's what I'm working on with Nate

right now and I also help out from time

to time with advisory on a a

crowdfunding platform that they're

involved in um so but yeah I have a

great relationship with them um I

honestly one of the best best choices

best decisions best uh best business um

moves I've ever made so I'm happy about

that I gotta ask because we do you know

a lot of clients are afraid to move on

because they're like what if they don't

live up to my standards what if they do

something different with my baby so how

are you able to continue to have

relationships with them and not

constantly be asking so how are things

going over there or have you changed

this or oh you you changed the name you

changed the location or whatever the

case might be how do you separate

yourself from that to still have an

ongoing relationship with them but not

always say well it was better when I ran

it

well for well I got again I got lucky

and second of all this is why you have

to vet who like that's why that list

that initial list I made was so

important um I I had to absolutely be

super super clear and

aware that whoever was buying my firm

was going to treat it with the utmost

respect I knew Richard was a man of

integrity before

I contacted him

because we had previously tried to

contact him and ask him I had I didn't

know Nate asked him if he would come and

work for us um I liked him and I thought

he was a good guy and so we called him

and we're like hey uh would you like to

come and work for our firm our firm was

way more successful at the time than

what he was doing and he said no I I'm

loyal to Nate and and and I didn't know

who Nate was I'm loyal to Nate Nate's a

good guy he's he's done a lot for me and

so I I'm going to stick with him but I

really appreciate the offer he was very

very um uh gracious about the whole

thing and and so I just knew he had when

when he had done that I knew he was a

person of Integrity um and so that was

my my first clue um that that they would

that they would take good care of it and

I also I was also you know I had the

ability to pull the plug there were

there were safety mechanisms within the

agreement um but I've never I've never

had to use it they have to be able to

have the freedom to make their own

choices right um they just had to have

the freedom to be able to make their own

choices and I had to trust them um and

as long as my check was clearing every

month

I say anything it doesn't matter me you

do whatever you want

[Laughter]

all right uh Julian is there anything

before we wrap up this discussion just

uh that you wanted to add or that I I

didn't ask about this whole

process no no I just I just want people

to really really know that any you can

do this you are totally absolutely and

completely capable of making things

happen of of of being this this

Powerhouse of selling and your business

in succession you just the big thing is

is do you have the systems in place that

somebody's going to want to buy it if

the answer is no if you as a business

owner you're running around like a

chicken with your head cut off every day

making things happen and that looks like

success from the outside looking in but

you know internally it's not going so

well then you need to fix that first

before you go out and try to sell it to

anybody and you can fix it it's there

it's all

fixable yeah yeah so you you you would

say it's the systems you know other

people say the values in the people um I

you know it's a combination of Client

List it's not just any one of the any

one of the things because no you could

definitely you're Absolut you're

absolutely correct but the the values in

the people are part of the system right

because like what your value are is is

part of your system like our values are

this and that is in itself a system

because how many times you go into a

company and there's no values whatsoever

because they never thought about it

before right um and I think if you have

good people if you uh and and and then

you have the

system a bad system can turn good people

bad too that's another thing like I've

I've watched it I've seen it happen in

businesses where good employees become

terrible employees because they have no

system or framework with with which in

to work with and they're not taught a

value set within that like you can look

at front you can look at something like

Spirit Airlines you know which has you

know some weird values if you ask me and

some definitely weird people but the

whole system that's their

system system is terrible customer

service

but so far it's worked I guess for

them I mean you can have if your values

don't I mean you like you said values

are part of the system if you have a

system but then you have values or even

if you don't have every company has

values that's what a lot of people don't

think is you know we've got the values

we put on the website that are the same

as every other attorney every other CPA

firm because those are the ones that we

are

expected but your values are the the

behaviors you you compensate for the

behavior you reinforce the way you treat

your employees based off of what they

the decisions they

make

and your systems are going to fall apart

based off of how you compensate

according to those values if your values

say x but your system says y they're

going to go where the value where the

compensation is what what behaviors are

being rewarded

right absolutely and that and that's

another thing too is that um is that um

I it took Jeff and I a probably a good

two years to really figure out what we

stood for in last life ever before we

went out and and it was it was meetings

it was writing down here are all the

words we think that describe us here are

all the words we want to describe us

this is this is what we want to be as a

company and what we want to as spouse

now how are we going to do that so what

are we why are we doing this and how are

we going to and then and then figuring

out how are we going to do that that's

that's really what it came down

to so somebody's listening to this and

they're like I do want to get out or I

do want to go home or I do want to do

something different how how long do you

think it takes a business to build a

system that's able to be

sold oh that's that's a great question

because I think if

you if you I wish I had I don't have it

here with me I think if you can take any

business and mind map it out um and

there's all kinds of information online

about mind

mapping and if anybody wants to contact

me I I have tons of videos on Mind

mapping it's one of my favorite things

to do if you mindmap you can put a great

system in place in in a month in any

business now that doesn't mean the

system's complete and it certainly does

not mean that the system is perfect and

it's and it also does not mean that you

won't have to make changes in the future

but if you just start with a simple mind

map you're well on your way to having

having a foundational Foundation of

which you can stand you know and it's

not sand it's pong free you know pong

creete Foundation where you can start

building on top of and you might have to

dismantle some pieces at at at a point

in time and rebuild it again and so on

and so forth but at least you can start

with that just mind map it out you'll be

done in a month and you can you can uh

you can start implementing things and

and building on top of

it gotcha okay great all right uh at the

end of the show I like to do a lightning

round with my guests just a little fun I

love this kind of stuff yeah get to know

the guest and their preferences and

things like that so you ready for the

lightning round jilan I am I am okay

first question for the lightning round

uh coffee or tea and how do you like it

prepared um I'm drinking coffee right

now so I'm gonna go with coffee and I

just like it with a little milk in it

okay all right uh pie or cake and do you

have a favorite

kind I'm going to I just this was the

first thing that popped in my mind I'm

going to go with PE can

that's my

favorite and you're in

California I'm in Puerto Rico now

California yeah after that was another

thing after we I sold the farm I moved

to Puerto Rico gotcha all right yeah not

not a lot of pican Pies in California

but when I moved over here on the East

Coast I was like this is

amazing all right um what is what's a

common belief among entrepreneurs that

you would want to challenge

that you have to do everything yourself

you don't you

know yeah those systems again so yeah

even building the systems you don't have

to be the one to build the systems

entirely either you just have to be the

one to set the GU you know the guidance

um yeah you have to be the leader right

yeah

yeah uh what is your favorite holiday

and

why oh definitely Thanksgiving we've

done some pretty epic thanks we had 70

people here last year and this is in

Puerto Rico we and and Thanksgiving

isn't a big holiday here and I had 70 70

something people here last year invited

them down from the states or your

neighbors no just people from around

there were some people from the states

but mostly from people around town we

just didn't have anything to do so I

made a big Thanksgiving dinner for like

people that's awesome um are you a

morning person or a night person and do

you have a favorite routine hi a morning

person and I guys I'm all about the

systems

that's I have a morning routine system

that took me a long time to develop too

actually because you know getting up in

the morning and being consistent is like

is a is not it doesn't come naturally or

easily or whatever but yeah I get up I

go to the gym then I make my kids

breakfast then I go to the beach I do a

little walk with my dog and then I come

home and start my work day h

um what is one thing that you would want

your successor to remember you

for my successor

um or someone you've mentored in the

profession or just somebody that's like

I remember working for Jillian working

with Jillian this is what she stood for

uh my generosity I I think people

thought I was generous maybe they don't

I don't know but I like to think I was

generous all right very good

where do you find sources of creativity

right now my kids so yeah they're

they're pretty funny they they make me

they tell some pretty good

jokes it's great um what do you have

coming up in the next year that's got

you really

excited the next year Well I I'm doing

um I this is not a sales pitch I just

it's the first thing that came to mind

I'm doing a goal setting seminar in San

Juan Puerto Rico and I'm very excited

about that because I just feel like we

can we can change the trajectory

trajectory of 20125 you know I I've been

very annoyed by the constant mentions I

I don't I'm not getting political I

don't want you to take any point of

political view from this but the

constant me mentions of project 2025

have ground my gears so much that I'm

like no I'm commandeering project 2025

it's mine now it's all about goal

setting you're your own project 2025

work on

it all right uh and now is the time for

the sales pitch Jillian so where where

can people find out more about you and

what you've got going on no that you

know what actually I want to give away

something for free I'm gonna give you

hold on one second I don't know if you

can put this in the notes but I actually

have a little goal setting um a little

bow

setting app not app excuse me little

course on how you can goal set for

yourself it's called it's literally

called project

2025 um a lot of people hate that but

it's bitly bit.

leyou project 2025 and if you go to that

um you you can get it for free it's

totally free awesome yeah we'll put that

down in the description yeah uh Jillian

thank you so much for your time I really

appreciate it and it's been great

hearing your story uh of the of your me

founding and

acquisition I hope people I hope people

got something from it and if you have

any questions or any of your audience

wants to reach out to me I completely

invite you to reach out to me I'd love

to help you great we'll put those

contacts in the in the description as

well so jilan thank you so much you're

welcome bye everyone thanks