The Art of Succession

welcome to the art of succession podcast

with Barrett young join us as we explore

the strategies stories and insights that

shape the Journey of leadership

Transitions and business success no

matter where you find yourself along the

journey this is the podcast where you'll

find the tools to make it happen you can

buy Goodwill but that doesn't mean that

it exists right um you still got to

create and earn that Goodwill what other

kind of sales experience had you had at

this point none if you ask my staff the

way I train is listen no excuses because

I can't sell ice to a Eskimo day one I

had to start introducing myself

explaining my intentions because

insurance is sensitive right like people

have to trust you to do business with

you my name is Barrett young and this is

the AR of succession podcast my guest

today is Nikia Mack an insurance agent

with Oliver Mac Insurance Nikia thank

you for being on guest on the artist

sucession thank you for having me

Barrett yeah I'm looking forward to this

conversation you are my insurance agent

and I I'm thankful that you uh you were

open to talking about the buyout that

occurred about four years ago at this

point what what is it that interested

you specifically about coming on as a

guest and telling that

story

um you're and I'm not saying this you

know with any bias at all I think that

we've had some pretty good conversations

and I think we share a very similar um

background and so the invite was an

absolute honor oh well I'm glad I'm glad

you took it that way thank you so much

um all right so let's I guess start from

prior to buying an insurance agent uh

agency talk about just a little bit of

your professional career and were you in

Insurance prior to that let's let's

start

there um okay long story sort of short

um I while in college I took a job at

about 19 maybe early 20s at a health

care um firm that specialized in complex

and and custom rehab where I was like

accounts receivable that's like a shoe

in to accounting right um and I stayed

there for a long long time like

so in that I discovered that um I wanted

to do respiratory therapy

to help the company provide additional

services and then I took some like core

classes and of those was accounting and

I'm like wait a minute I'm really good

at this and so I decided to change my

major and I transferred to talson as a

junior because I had so many credits

from Community College um and then I

found out that like it was a different

kind of accounting like I wasn't really

doing good at accounting I just thought

that was um so I laced up my boot strap

and I did um Talon's accounting

program and then I did some um studying

for the CPA okay gotcha and so then this

was not right out of high school then

this is n later on in life a little bit

okay awesome love to hear it um

accidental accountant that's great

absolutely accidental accidental

insurance agent

too I just you know I'm I'm winging life

and historically I've done so so okay so

you got an accounting degree you you sat

for the CPA

exam okay and then didn't go into public

was there something about accounting

that you're like maybe not or I never

like that was never my story I I never

intended to go into public um I liked

accounting and so my intention was never

to go into public like it just it was

total happen stance that I got the

funding to study for the CPA and so I

said okay I guess we're studying for the

CPA so part after part I'm like okay I

guess we're going to the next part it's

just it it it it was a wild ride but it

was totally

unplanned okay I got you and then did

you start in accounting at an insurance

agency or how did you go from I've

passed the CP exam but I don't want to

be in public to I want to be in

accounting department my employer just

connected me with with being able to do

more and more accounting projects until

I was on my own um with some mentorship

okay so explain that who's your employer

at the time for this my employer was the

was the small um Healthcare um okay so

they were your you stayed with them

through the accounting degree through

the CPA exam everything like that okay

yeah they gave me the flexibility that I

needed and so instead of seeing we go

they kind of were like okay what do we

how do we Foster this new found

desire to be an accountant and so

basically a lot of my work thereafter

accounting work was like

mentorships um I did the um tax program

for talson and so a lot like I started

tax is my it's like I'm stronger in text

than I'm audit audit is far too

conceptual for me um I'm very like yes

or no black or white and I think you

know that about me by now and so

it tax was kind of where I went and then

I had so many people small businesses

asking hey can you do this and I'm like

okay well I'll try and then you

know okay so as the tax partner here as

as a lifelong tax guy by accident

almost you love tax you like tax but you

didn't want to go into public accounting

and du tax so what I guess talk talk to

me about that disconn I have a

disconnect there in my head I think when

I thought

about public

accounting I I just thought about like

that

uh tax season you could say it no like I

was excited about ta so for me it was

more okay if I'm going to do this I want

to do it all the way right so what does

it take to become partner and I'm like

ah my the dynamic of my life didn't

would not would not have allowed me to

commit to the extent that it would have

taken me to even try for partner and I

felt like I was at the age where it's

like partner or nothing I didn't want to

be like you know I got to run a business

yeah ex

exactly so okay I mean we're getting off

into an accounting related tangent here

and you're an insurance agent so but I'm

interested because you did you did your

accounting program at talson they a big

Maryland University and the experience I

hear from others is the only people that

recruit at the big Maryland universities

are the big four so was that your

perception of public accounting or were

you aware being through a smaller health

care company that there were small CPA

firms that kind of stuff no so you're

right like the exposure was the big four

and it just that didn't resonate with me

at all for good reason so it was more

like I'm going to finish this accounting

degree and then I was invited to one of

the leadership acmy and I'm like okay

let's do that that sounds fun at the

leadership Association mcpa mcpa okay

great and then at the one of the days of

the Academy I won a wly scholarship

because otherwise I wasn't going to pay

to study for the exam it just was never

something that I desired to do um but

once I got the funding it's like I have

to do this I felt like it's so many

people who don't get the opportunity you

know so that's where my studying Journey

began all right I'll I'll I'll leave it

at that before I lose everybody with an

accounting related discussion but okay

so you're at the you're at your employer

that you had started with not as a as an

accountant major accounting major you

said you'd increased in responsibilities

there and you they'd been a great mentor

to you someone in that organization had

really been coaching you through this

how do they go from like this is a great

EMP that we've fed into all these years

to you should go leave us and buy an

insurance agency how did how talk about

that relationship it actually didn't

happen that way so um I still do work

for them oh okay and yes so but I have

staff and so I'm constantly connected

right um we actually had a conversation

where my boss is like you know you can't

like just go right like we need you

around here so it's more like a

oversight capacity especially with the

accounting skill and the now business

owner skill um my input is a lot um it's

changed the dynamic of the relationship

has changed so it's like a Consulting

capacity kind of thing gotcha okay side

job then the main job has moved to the

side job and the main exactly and then

they put you in

contact uh with Celeste who you bought

her no okay oh my gosh all right see

it's a whole thing all right so how did

that happen one of my small business

clients was an agency

owner and they had a relationship with

Celeste and they found out that she was

selling and they're like you know I

think you guys would be amazing together

just and I'm like that sounds insane

like what so I said okay and I'm always

a person that if you know if the

opportunity is bestowed upon me I owe it

at least some exploration right so I'm

in Baltimore

County and I said we scheduled a meeting

in Waldorf which took me two hours on a

very like I'm like I can't believe like

this is crazy so I get there and

like I was there for four hours just

talking about everything and she told me

that she had um an offer already

somebody had put in a letter of intent

to the

carrier and she's like but I think I'm

going to resend that and she did um with

no letter of intent from you or anything

other than this 4our conversation well

she did she wanted to like she said well

where are you with this because if

you're interested you know I think I

think this is a good fit I think you

will do very well and the rest is

history all right all right so yeah I

mean just a little bit of context that's

how you and I started working together

as Celeste was a client of mine I

shopped my insurance a couple years ago

um and came on board with her agency and

then I think within a year maybe two uh

you took over the

agency you had no

insurance sales experience at this point

because you were on the like the health

care processing of the forms getting

reimbursed and everything is that like

the accounting stuff you were doing pre

previously or the contractual stuff like

fee schedules and that kind of thing

right okay um what other sales

experience other than having a small

bookkeeping business on the side what

other kind of sales experience had you

had at this point none if you ask my

staff the way I train is listen no

excuses because I can't sell ice to a

Eskimo that's that's how I start my

training um I think you have to find

what you're good at I am good at knowing

learning things and being able to share

my knowledge and that Fosters a

relationship of trust um so I don't have

like glitter to put on words that's not

that's not my thing um I I do not that's

not my Approach because I do not

consider myself a salesperson did I mean

did Celeste prep you for how much of

Insurance Agency is selling no not like

I I and I don't know how I feel about it

to this

um I I did not learn that how much sales

it entailed until like we were live and

I'm like wait like this is how it works

um but had she prepared me I probably

would have declined the opportunity so

we I I assume it wasn't impulsive 4-Hour

conversation and then it's done what was

that what was that due diligence process

like for you to start to like go home

consider it say yes all that kind of

stuff um I started researching like what

agency ownership looks like um and then

and then the carrier has their own like

super involved process like you have to

go before a panel for approval it's not

just I'm going to sell this to this

person and the Carri it's like yeah fine

no like they have to approve you still

so you have to prove Financial Acumen

you have to prove credit worthiness

um get your fenra series and all that

too I see and then of course

lure um and you have to be license and

all the things so my staff can choose

right our bread and butter is Property

and Casualty so my bare minimum is a

Property and Casualty license the agency

owner has to be licensed in all the

things but I like to study if it's sold

under your book then you have to be you

know able to superv that kind of sale so

exactly so studying for me was the fun

part like you know um and then like the

life and health portion I I had a lot of

back like I I was doing contracts for

that kind so that was easy peasy

Property and Casualty I had no

experience in so um so is this

um you know from that forour

conversation how long did it take for

you to actually I mean did you start off

as an employee did you start start off

with a purchase and she worked for a

little bit like talk me through the two

to three months or however long it might

have taken to to move forward with the

deal so I made the decision to an

affirmative decision in

July and the conversation was what month

again July okay so same month like yeah

I it didn't take me long to decide like

this is what I want to do and then still

with like a lot of concern about like

like I literally got anxiety every day

up and until I opened on December 1st 21

um so from July I didn't get appointed

until November that's how long the

carriers process is so there's lots of

like you got to present a business plan

like we want to know what your plans are

for the next decade um they have to look

at you have to do several background

checks you have to if you have any debt

you have to resolve that debt um they

found a parking ticket from 2006 and

they're like go pay that and you can't

settle you have to pay the amount in

full like non non-current debt needs to

be closed out or they include like

student loans and things that are stud

Lo St Lo um as long as the student loans

were not like I don't I'm not entirely

sure of the criteria um for like debt

that is like not that is current right

but for like any kind of collections

because with the SEC with fenra you

can't be compromised in a way um that

like having debt where people could

leverage that I I guess is the logic um

so if you owe people they don't want you

owing anyone

essentially so I had to pay the parking

ticket from 2006 in

2021 and I called the courthouse and

they're like what just trust me I need

to pay you just let me pay I got to pay

it and I got to pay the entire amount so

wow don't do me any

favors yep okay um and so this is this

is an asset sale so you're not you

weren't buying celeste's agency you were

buying her Goodwill her Client List all

of that so you had to start up an LLC

and the the name of your business was

Oliver Mac insurance so what so I'm

prepping I prepped you for this but why

Oliver Mack who's Oliver Oliver is my

family name and then Mac is my name so

um like I shared with you um offline I

am one of the first business owners in

my family so I wanted to give my family

some connection to my business um Mac is

my married name so of course my kids

share that name and you know so I I

wanted to kind of make that connection

for everybody okay

um in a relationship business when

you're taking over from somebody I mean

how did that hers was Conor's

um how did that Conor's Ward Conor's

Ward which was

her partner or deceased husband I can I

can't neither neither okay so later it's

funny that you bring that up later I

found out that it was um conventional

that

the seceding

agent attatch the previous agents name

to their business sure okay so it would

it should have been Mack Conor's Ward

then to show some continuity there I

mean it's CPA firms we used to have

seven names at the end of our name and

and so I didn't intentionally omit

anyone I just didn't know right and I'm

like I felt so bad but this was like two

or three years in and I'm like wait I

was supposed to do that oh you okay so

she never brought it up she never no so

it wasn't intentional it was just you

know just didn't know I didn't know that

that it was it's no written it's a

tradition it's like honoring like yeah

gotta okay so was that tough to to

transfer I mean because this is what I

really want to get into in this is you

know we're both in relationship

businesses and it's like my relationship

was with Celeste

and there unless you were an employee

there and I got to know you as an

employee it's like well who's this

person so talk talk through some of that

and just the successes and maybe some

struggles ah so celeste's book is about

was about 36 years old when I took

over so we we we there was a a lot of

challenge in creating trust you can buy

Goodwill but that doesn't mean that it

exists right um you still got to create

and earn that Goodwill and so a lot of

her clients were like you know I just

don't and so statistically when you

purchase a book of

business um it is anticipated that about

5% um of that book falls off due to um

the acquisition just we're going to take

a chance shop shop new rates and stuff

like like I said I have a relationship

with Celeste she's not here anymore I'm

going to take this chance to so even

with a national brand like you work for

there still is very much that the is my

insurance agent yes absolutely

absolutely even even um in my business

today there are clients that will not

talk to my staff they'll call in it

could be a payment and they're like nope

I I I need to speak to Nikia so uh and

that it is you know it's it's a it's a

blessing and a

curse so yes it was it was a bit of an

uphill battle but I I don't think it was

as much of an uphill battle as I

anticipated I was prepped for that

okay so more than five I mean that's the

we did not lose 5% oh really okay we I

don't even think we lost

2% uh I think I was a bit proactive and

so the carrier does dictate how you can

communicate the acquisition um it's

almost for continuity it's almost not

discouraged but you have to be very

intentional about how that acquisition

is communicated

um and so I just I had to do a whole lot

of like reaching out once I um at

closing like after like day one I had to

start introducing

myself um and basically explaining my

intentions because insurance is

sensitive right

like people have to trust you to do

business with you and so they nobody

likes the idea of oh I was just assigned

to you right yeah so and she she the the

book of business is is a good siiz book

of business and so I had to come up with

a plan to be able to you know have those

kind of conversations with a a good

portion of now I have some clients who

to this day I've only spoken with once

you know and those are the people who

are okay with binding a policy

online but the vast majority of that

book are people have been with the

carrier for 36 years and so um those

conversations were required and you know

just nurturing those

conversations and those relationships

like they still have to happen to this

day yeah so you I mean you said it was

an uphill battle but then you also said

you had below average turnover so what

was the uphill battle about it the

uphill battle was um combating the

notion so I people will say I didn't

experience increases until you took

over I I don't get to determine the

increases um but we it was also we were

taking a turn industrywide around the

same time right so it it's a perfect

storm where

increases every renewal period is it was

a fairly New Concept right like prior to

covid you weren't seeing an increase

every single renewal period and that

still is not always the case but I'm

sure that you can attest to the fact

that re renewals bring increases far

more often than let's say a decade ago I

Goa okay so it wasn't yeah it was just

the conversations selling to people

who've already been sold to it's not so

easy is like oh well they've been a

client of hers for 36 years they're

going to be a client of mine for 36

years it's like no every six months

you're gonna be selling again so

absolutely yeah I got you okay um you

have staff now at the time did Celeste

have any staff in the agency No so at

the time we

were just coming out of covid um and I

think there was um the carrier did

allow uh agents to go remote completely

and so with that Celeste was just kind

of a oneman show and she didn't have any

staff so I didn't acquire any staff my

staff has been built by me so I know the

buyout so you said the transition is

governed by the national brand the

buyout though is negotiated between you

and Celeste like do they do they weigh

in on amounts or any kind of stuff like

that or are earn outs or how long she

has to stick around in order for that

anything like that so the financial

piece is between you and the the seller

um there are industry metrics so for

instance the book of business is you

know to help you value it then correct

valuation is yes exactly exactly so

depending on the climate right or even

the like the the variations in the

different metrics year over year because

I had some accounting experience I was

able to say hey this is a negative

variance can you explain why and you

know why this would be favorable and

Celeste was so transparent like I hear

horror stories um but there are industry

standards for those metrics and how to

Value the book okay gotcha and did she I

mean part of that buyout was she GNA

stick around for six months is she gonna

stick around for a year was she

tried um she she the original plan

was I believe maybe two

months and then so January and February

like a and but the first two weeks she

agreed to be in

agency and then she was like sitting by

her phone and for the first one or two

weeks I would call and say hey what is

it like I was starting from literal

Ground Zero most agency owners you know

are like it's a it's a legacy kind of

business dad was an agent Granddad was

an agent um or you worked there for a

couple years retired yep okay so you

know would ask all the foundational

questions and after maybe two or three

weeks she had to text me and she's like

are you okay cuz you know she wasn't

hearing from me um oh okay so she got

all your answers right so she planned on

being around for a while and we still

like I I I talk to her regularly um I

just saw I was just with her on Friday

so um the relationship is not just a

business relationship and I'm so

grateful for that um but I had to tell

her to go to a beach like 30 days in I'm

like why are you still here it's going

to be okay

right awesome um is that standard I mean

that quick of a turnover what's the

what's the standard within your

organization usually I think it depends

on the transition so if it were like an

employee then I think um probably the

transition is probably a lot easier and

more

expedited um but I know agents who

um don't talk to their seller at all

they don't know where they are they

don't you know so like I think our

Dynamic is definitely um an anomaly for

sure um Rick remind me had you before

that 4-Hour conversation had you met her

no no I had like so I may I might have

received a call on like Wednesday just

to like tell get directions and confirm

an appointment kind of thing and then I

was there on Saturday and like the an

hour end I'm like I think I might turn

around this is actually crazy because

how could I possibly do this daily so uh

so I want to shift into now it's your

agency so what what were those warning

sign or not warning signs but just what

were those things that

were at the back of your head like can I

do this what you know did those Fe did

those fears become reality did it play

out how were they like squashed how how

how did it I think tell me about your

first year those fears happen on a

Continuum okay um you know different

things present

themselves with every quarter right the

accountant in me it's like okay it's

first quarter I'm preparing for fourth

quarter but then like the industry

changes um regulations change like so

there are different things that drive

our success right so if you like

purchase leads there are some FCC things

happening right now as it relates to

leads and how you know so in the

beginning most of my fears were around

my

ability um those did not like I've

shocked even myself because um again I

went into this like I I don't wait there

this is there's sales involved like

nobody like I no there's no

way and then I found my them because

there's a lot of learning in insurance

and you like learning for sure I love

learning so like one of my agent friends

was like can you like can you leave the

accountant at home because most

insurance agents are very gray they live

in the gray and I'm like wait well no

how this like I literally would go into

like we have a rules and rates library

and I would go in and try to like

calculate

premium by hand mhm like look somebody's

quote or something like that rating

factors right so and there like no

literally Nobody Does that like you

should you should stop you have better

things to do U but I think my background

actually uh assist me a lot because I'm

not gray and so I need the answers I

need to understand you know risk

management policies I need to know what

make what makes this rate do this or

that right because you could receive a

quote from another agent right up the

street and our rates would be different

because like I know okay these are the

discounts these are the these are the

things that apply um it takes some kind

of like they call it field underwriting

it takes knowing the questions to ask to

make sure that you are properly

presenting um

protection so um I guess to answer your

question a lot of those fears were

around my own

ability uh and I like now they're are

more around the business and how to

Pivot when necessary talk to me about

deciding to expand Beyond yourself

because you know for sure as an

insurance agent I mean you might get I

don't know a part-time admin or

something like that or if there's I

don't know of probably the national

carer would do admin for you too if you

pay him a an amount or I'm sure that's

that's probably in there so what why why

did you

[Music]

hire so very

quickly um I knew that my purpose had to

be bigger than making money because this

is a hard

industry

um contrary to popular belief agents

don't like to see rates increase right

that's all those are very hard

conversations and we are not exempt from

those increases I always say well who do

I talk to when my rate goes up so it

like I had to find a a greater purpose

and a part of that was

providing

employment my I have right now all

female staff and you know two I think

two and I am actually looking to on

board a third really soon great and all

of them are well one of them is a

and like she is one of my favorite

people just seeing her grow is one of

the most rewarding things and none of my

staff had Insurance

experience so just seeing seeing people

like come in and

flourish was um my goal and it and I

can't say that it doesn't help me right

um I wanted to very quickly I always

want to skip to the good part right so I

wanted to get to a place where I was

working on the business and not in the

business I am still very much working in

the business but I have solid solid

people um and so I I never went into

this wanting to be a oneman show

ever so you got some e- myth in there

from Michael Gerber uh that that it's

not a surprise you're a reader if you're

a learner so H how soon I

mean yeah I mean to go from entrepreneur

to go from employee to business owner to

now employer that is a shift that's two

shifts in mindset there um I mean did

you know from like stepping in there

that this is where you were heading or

did it take like was it a year of

running the agency by yourself and

you're like I I don't want to do this by

myself what tell me about that I hired

people almost immediately okay um

because it wasn't a scratch agency and

so you had some cash flow there to right

and I never

wanted my my clients to feel like they

were being short changed because I was I

was a new agent um so we needed to hit

the ground running uh including like

understanding like I was so afraid that

I would just say the wrong thing um so I

spent nights like up reading rmps and

like just I have to know this like I

know my name and so so it was never an

option not to have that support because

I knew that my client base would feel

the lack of support if I didn't hire

immediately so it it didn't take long it

was it was immediate almost Uh current

employees that you have now or did you

um so some have changed okay so so you

needed support and you were a new person

so you hired somebody that had

experience then is that correct you

would think so right had it on the

resume well so I my

first um employee did she had some

experience

and I think from that relationship I

learned that you hire people for what

you can't do so our Dynamic worked like

a puzzle

because our personalities are different

like I'm very much by the book not that

she wasn't but she's very much I'm just

going to jump in here and figure this

out where I'm like no no we got to read

it first it's a thousand Pages we can't

do anything until we read the thousandth

page where she's like uh I think I've

read enough let's let's see if it works

assemble the parachute on the way down

exactly um and I think I needed a little

bit of

that definitely definitely some of that

in

entrepreneurship right there's no book

what am I now what do I do no and so

like I found myself building the

book gotcha okay um so yeah she was she

had a little bit of experience more than

I did for sure uh but she was

experiencing a different way mhm okay

all right so you've got employees from

day one um you knew that you wanted to

be working in the business not or on the

business not in the business I mean what

does in your mind what does that look

like in a small agency of three to four

people where you are the agent what's

that look like it looks like like

um not like my my people being confident

enough to handle the operations piece

and I am looking at all the things that

makes the agency great right so um

making sure that operations still make

sense making sure that we have various

ways of prospecting like if I'm working

in the business there's no way I can

like build relationships or um kind of

do the re search necessary to Pivot when

necessary uh I can't be selling all day

I do sell because I have a point to

prove like if I give objectives my staff

know they can see I they I am the

example that this can be done um because

I think that's

important but I working on the agency is

just you know having that birds I view

because somebody has

to gotcha okay so there so if you have

other agents working under you they're

doing half the half the commissions or a

third of the commissions or whatever the

case might be you're still closing just

as much as you're asking them to at this

point but then are you passing off that

relationship to the team I mean how does

how does that work does like again to

get out of working on in it to working

on it so um I think time blocking is is

the method that I've been using so I I

go in every Saturday and I'm just like

pulling back the cabinets like making

sure that just everything is going the

way it's every week just let's look at

what we did for the week what can we do

differently building out trackers to

look at you know where are our lead

sources and which lead sources do I need

to increase and and here's the plan to

do this in that time I may have a

customer walk in and you know needing a

review or a new you know a prospect

wanting a quote so um it's just kind of

allotting enough time to be able to do

both what's that look like is it just

that Saturday is it one day out of six

or is it like 20% of your time you're

trying to focus on High level stuff or

how how does that work for you it's

daily um so that's that's the way it

should be okay I so you know this you

may call the agency and the likelihood

of you getting me is probably so I make

myself

available the first portion of the day

so that my staff can kind of prepare to

just you know they're they they have to

come in and then they're on so I'm

taking the service calls I'm taking the

exist the calls from the existing book

of business the people who only want to

speak to me to make a payment um the

people who need to discuss claims you

know just the I do the I'm working in

the business for the first two or three

hours of the day like I am the front man

I am the person who's going to answer

the phones and then on Saturdays I am

looking at like my cancellation list

right because it gives me an opportunity

to see what my staff is

doing if I didn't T if I didn't work in

the business at all I would not be able

to see you know are we really doing what

we're supposed to do so it it has to be

a balance so I'm doing some of that

every day so about half of each day

during the normal work week and then all

day Saturday that's like your fun

project I'm sure

so I feel the same way about marketing

I'm like if I can just do this on Monday

through Friday so I can shoot videos on

Saturday I'm like it doesn't feel like a

work day for me at that point right so I

totally understand that okay um give me

some it can't have all been amazing for

the past four years so share with me

some lessons learn some of those wow you

know you you said a c a while ago if I

would have known then what I know now I

probably would have walked away at that

point so talk to me about that um I am

an anxious person by nature and so just

if if people gave me the bed I wouldn't

have it just wouldn't have been worth

the risk I don't think because I

probably would have doubted

myself um no it's not all amazing it

like having to have

conversations especially in today's

economy about like I have clients who

say listen like I can't pay this

insurance bill and go grocery

shopping um those conversations are hard

because I don't have all the

answers so um but I feel like they

deserve answers they deserve Solutions

if I can offer them

uh and I think that that is one of the

things that makes my agency unique my

staff um I see a lot of myself and my

staff and that they are always wanting

to educate always wanting to solve all

the

problems um and then just you know

losing people because a lot of my my

book of business is is elderly right and

so

just time makes it hard um so no it's

not all amazing I think overall just

being able to share the knowledge that I

have makes it worth it yeah so it's kind

of like I

mean not having foresight or forn

knowledge of the future is kind of a

Grace like a good thing to us because we

would collapse under that pressure but I

could take it one day at a time or one

week like today's problems for today's

you know today's Barett that's that's

future bear that story about that a

little bit yeah okay I get that yeah so

how do you I mean when you hit something

like that how do you how do you stay

positive how do you tackle it I mean

obviously you work hard you learn

everything you can about things but what

I know those conversations can be a

could be stressful and as an you know as

an empathetic person you take a lot of

that home with you and everything how do

you get up in the morning and and

continue to do it when faced faced with

things like that I think I committed

early on to doing what's best for the

client even if that's helping them shop

right um and a lot of my clients come

back to me for that reason I have so

many agents um who make it really hard

for like clients to cancel and it leaves

a very like a really bad taste in the

client's mouth when they can't

um just call and cancel yeah they have

jump through hoops and sign stuff and

come into the office and give me it in

paper and all this kind of stuff so I

always tell my clients listen I am your

agent until I'm not and so if you're

shopping let's look at those quotes

together it's it's going to be really

easy for you to find a lower rate but I

don't want you to lead with that um when

shopping because you're going to get a

lower rate but that may not be the

protection that you have now and I can

say that because I priori prti

protection so if if somebody comes to me

and they

have equal or better protection at a

lower rate I'm going to say it's

time um so

prioritizing what's best for my clients

is what helps me like you know it was

the other agent won fair and square and

my agent will all I mean my my client

will always remember that I did what was

best for

them I mean you've solidified me for

every

so um two months ago we had a

conversation cuz my daughter just got a

driver's license and you shared yours

was in a similar boat yeah your you had

a kid in a similar boat but just you you

reminded me in that conversation yes I

was shocked by the premiums which are

about equivalent to what me and my wife

pay as two full-grown drivers yeah but

you helped me see you you guys are not

the cheapest and I wasn't I'm not

looking for the cheapest I know I can

find cheaper out there and they'll Jack

my rates up over the next 2 to three

years anyways to to get me where I'm at

um but you help me see that this is

insurance and this is shielding your

assets not necessarily just a an expense

on your daughter's you know your

daughter's side so correct exactly I'm

like you know you're right I would not

think twice about paying that on like

errors and Emissions insurance or

general you know liability within the

company or even like you know taking

care of my team with short-term

disability or something something like

that so like H yeah when I stopped

thinking like a broke 17-year-old myself

trying to buy my first policy and having

the context of what prices were like 25

years ago I'm like stop that you need to

stop that so right and that and that

that conversation was just like no Niki

is right this is this we're we're gonna

make this work and I I totally

appreciate that you know that uh

relationship there and just empathy that

I felt through that conversation and

understanding and everything like that

so yeah so you didn't have that

knowledge four years ago prior to no so

is that just from having these

conversations AB that six times a day

for the past four years and seeing like

seeing

the the damage that like a claim could

do and we're not just talking about like

physical damage we're talking about like

Financial Devastation due to liability

like it's so many components

that your policy cover like we are

trained first of all I think

we we have the wrong um understanding of

the purpose of insurance and a lot of us

think that it's like a social program

like there's nothing there's it's not a

social benefit right these are

corporations in it to make money if you

can self- insure you would so you know

like just learning exactly what it does

and and to see it work the way that it's

supposed to work helps me have those

conversations because like it it feels

yeah we're paying $2 $300 a month but

then when your car is totaled and you

have a loan then you know what I mean

like but it's hard for us

like human beings only see best case

scenario most times and so it takes

Devastation to see and I like I always

say if if I am your agent you're never

surprised like you're never going to

have a claim and then say wait I didn't

know that I will I will let you walk

first before I sell you a an inferior

policy yeah that's

awesome um anything else Nikia that I

didn't cover that you wanted to bring up

just about you know taking over the

agency building it growing it all that

kind of stuff that gets you excited I I

just think um having the opportunity

to um be an employee here being able to

provide opportunity is is beyond

anything that I could have imagined I am

I have like a such a strong relationship

with my staff and even with my clients

uh just being in this position even

though it's not always fun it just puts

me in a position to be able to do good

work right all the way around just even

if ultimately the relationship like we

we have to separate even like

temporarily

I feel good about sending my clients off

with knowledge that they didn't have

before um and providing my staff with

opportunities that you know they may not

have otherwise

had yeah I mean that's huge and that's

hard to convey to somebody that's not

been an employer and has only ever had

negative you know corporate

relationships with their employers and

everything like the contentual like it's

US versus them make sure everything's

documented all that kind of stuff

employees bring heartache and bring pain

and you invest you invest in a great

employee and then they say they left for

you know a cheaper policy almost like

just you know yeah um so they they you

know it rips your heart out but then at

the same time it's

like you you'll get there as you move

away from working in the business and

everything at this point I'm no longer

doing this for my clients the client

relationship are great I love the phone

conversations and everything like that

but you can only do so much if you're

the center of all of that attention if

you're the one that everybody has to

talk to and you see that it's not just

you plus two people equals the effort of

three people it's like no the effort of

three is more like the effort of six

seven you know it just expands or

exponentially grows the more the more

you you guys know what you're about so

that's awesome

um do you guys have core values have you

ever done anything like that with with

the agency over the past four years

thought about like vision and what we

stand for and obviously I know you've

talked about like why you feel you're

different but do you guys do Retreats or

do you talk about stuff like that what

do you what do you do for culture within

the company um I think I think we have

um burst of like cultural evaluation

almost daily right

um just because when you start to see

staff as like

people I am a person that likes to plan

for like the long term so it took me it

took me a long time to to see that like

these relationships while great may only

be temporary and

so I think the hardest part is

really in like you said investing and

people who may not be here next year

yeah but to like enjoy the relationship

in the moment and value the people for

what they contribute to your

business um and so yes culturally I

think I think I've been lucky because

I'm very slow to

hire um they have to be a good fit like

I do personality

tests and which one we use ideal traits

okay um and so and it it's not a tell

all right but it gives you a good idea

as to if the person will be a good fit

and it's not always 100% it's never 100%

but it's not

always accurate and things are ever

changing right so you may hire somebody

who was a great fit in the beginning and

then life happened or you know just

their perspective of things

change um so I think we like we create

our core values on the fly right so

dealing with our clients we and just

prioritizing them it kind of defines our

core values so it's understood that like

we don't

sell we don't

sell terrible policies just to check the

box that you know we wrote an item I

don't feel good about that every single

time I get a notification of a claim I'm

like did I write this because if I wrote

it I know that you know all the things

are there but I acquired a book of

business and it wasn't just like it's

just those core values play a part in

everything that you do

and

so because of that everything that you

do defines those core values so this is

every day gotcha awesome yeah I heard an

analogy once that helped me a lot with

that and said that your business is like

a tree You've Got Roots you've got

branches and you've got leaves and your

roots are like the foundation of the

business the people who've been there a

long time they're foundational the

branches you know are supported by the

roots and you know they reach out and

that's how you get a lot of stuff done

and then you have leaves and leaves

leave that's what leaves do yeah that is

true and leaves are here for a short

time and they make the tree look really

good and you don't want to be a tree

without leaves because that means you

don't have any life but but don't be mad

at a leaf because it's not a

branch enjoy and invest into feed the

leaves while they're there but then know

that they're going to go off and they're

not going to be part of the tree for

long term and that really helped me yeah

if somebody's here for a year it's like

well I'm never going to hire somebody

again because of that it's like no

invest into that person while they're

here so that they speak well of you when

they leave and it's you

know not everybody's going to become a

partner not everybody's gonna become a

CPA not everybody's gonna be you know

stay here for 35 years just because

we've had some that have so yeah awesome

so all right uh Nikia I do a lightning

round with my guests at the end of the

episode before we get into that was

there anything else that I that you

wanted to add or forgot to cover no

thank you Barrett all right awesome so

let's get into the lightning round um

coffee or tea and how do you like it

prepared

coffee absolutely every day multiple

times a day um just creamer okay just

plain un unflavored creamer gotcha okay

um pie or cake and do you have a

favorite kind cheesecake yeah AB

abolutely

probably strawberry cheesecake okay

gotcha all

right um what's a common belief among

entrepreneurs that you would want to

challenge um that everything has to be

perfect before you

start uh and and I was one of those

people like this H like this doesn't

feel complete and I I can't but you you

have to just do it especially being

somebody who has to read a thousand

pages I totally understand that it's

like until all of the unknowns are

figured out but like but like we've

talked about there's going to be

unknowns that you couldn't even know

until you got started so not even in

those those 10,000 Pages yep the book's

2,000 Pages nobody told me that right

there's a part

two yep awesome uh what's your favorite

holiday and

why I would have to say

Christmas um because I've been dedic

ated to redefining what that looks like

uh Growing Up Christmas was like my

grandmother was like the the the like

the Christmas boss and I remember her

like bullying my mom and my aunts into

like you have to spend as much all the

money you have to make sure these kids

have all the

things

um that's not so a long I started

homeschooling some years ago and

pretty early on in

motherhood I realized that like those

things will be broken tomorrow or

they're just going to play with the box

right so I was committed to like okay

we'll study this region in school and

then we'll visit they will have those

memories forever so it's been really fun

um redefining what what Christmas is for

us awesome so do you guys take a trip at

Christmas then oh cool that's neat MH

are you a morning person or a night

person do you have a routine that you

love um my routine is not having a

routine I am not a morning

like I guess most people believe that

like business owners

are all of them are up at 4 a.m. like

you know the ear the the the early bir

get I I would never eat um I'm a night

person through and through and I I I

guess I have the CPA exam to thank for

that because I had to study after work

right so I would be up till 3:00 am and

then I would tell people like I would

solve problems in my sleep like I I

would study in my

sleep if I went to bed with like a far

Sim that I didn't in my sleep and then I

would get up like oh this is it right I

I can't tell you the number of tax

returns I've resolved at 2:00 in the

morning write a note roll over right

note put it back down look at it the

next morning be like wow that's actually

pretty smart exactly so I'm definitely a

night person uh I dread mornings I do

them but I don't like

it um what is one thing that you would

want your successor to remember you for

following in your

shoes compassion uh it is so easy to

forget why you do

this um you know money could be a

motivation and that's it's okay right

but that will not that's not sustainable

because insurance is hard it is like and

I've said that several times right and I

can't say it enough it's hard it's hard

the changes are hard the conversations

are hard the losses are hard so you

there are other ways you could make a

living that's not signing up for all

this exactly and

so um

compassion even for the people

who call you the spawn of Satan

because their premium went up like you

you have to see every one of those

people and you know

because I so I want to be remembered for

being compassionate

awesome uh where where are you finding

creativity right

now just having to reinvent the the

business like

things change quickly and you you got to

be creative and so like I am

not I'm like people close to to me will

tell you that I'm a robot like my kids

say Mom you're a robot um because my fun

is studying right um so I don't give

like main character energy at all like I

was really trying to figure out like

where do I find creativity and it's like

I

it I create

best by working um so just finding new

ways

to serve my my book of business and to

serve my employees and to keep everyone

engaged and to maintain the trust and

the Good Will um if you ask me that take

some creativity yeah yeah for sure

awesome all right and uh what do you

have coming up this year that's got you

excited expanding um in expanding in

spite of all the obstacles makes me

excited um because new location or just

the additional employee or additional

employees I I want to get back to

accounting that makes me excited um

because I felt like I had to abandon

that for a minute I needed to give

Insurance my everything until I knew it

well um because I just I couldn't have

like how do you how do you

purchase a book of business with

thousands of policies and not give it

your all right um but I miss my

baby so I'm excited about being able to

get back to accounting being able to

merge the

two um and just growing the business in

spite of all of the obstacles because

for as much um winging of

life that I've done I think um it makes

for a great story

and I guess I'm just ready to see what

else happen yeah yeah nobody's

interested in the adventure story it's

like the hero woke up and everything

fell into place and then the hero you

know retired it's like well that's the

most boring story I've ever heard oh my

goodness so and that's I mean that's

what I love about entrepreneurship I'm

sure you do too is it's like you throw a

challenge at us and we're going to

figure out a way to work around it and

this is the reality and we're going to

Pivot and we're going to adjust and

we're going to shift and we're g to

remake the world the way that it needs

to be in the face of this new obstacle

so H awesome love it I've really enjoyed

this conversation with you Nikia this

has been energizing for me going into

tax season

here um where can people find out more

about you and reach out to you if

necessary so we have Facebook Oliver Mac

Insurance Instagram Oliver Mac Insurance

um we have our website um Oliver Mac

insurance.com and we are working on all

the new ways to um be front and center

in our community um we're working with

small businesses to build referral

programs so we have a lot happening this

year awesome I'm going have to have you

on in the future to talk about just

marketing and client relationships and

stuff like that at some point point so

I'm looking forward to it oh well thank

you for being a guest Nik I've really

I've really enjoyed this so thank you so

much thank you for having me Barrett

we'll talk soon of course you've been

listening to the art of succession

podcast with your host Barrett young

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sharing the successes and challenges

from business owners with their own

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