The Art of Succession

00:00:00.000 — 00:00:14.880 · Speaker 1
I think a common belief among entrepreneurs. When you go in business, you're going to make a lot of money, you're going to be successful. It just doesn't happen that way. Going in business is taking on a big challenge. So I would tell entrepreneurs.

00:00:15.680 — 00:00:24.480 · Speaker 2
Meet Bob lobby. He is the owner and partner of the Ultimate Drink Coaster Company, a tech engineer who built and sold three companies over five decades and still isn't done.

00:00:24.520 — 00:00:47.960 · Speaker 1
We were fortunate my partner, John Helwig, and he and I became great friends, but John and I were the perfect fit for partners because what he liked to do, I didn't. And what I didn't like to do, he liked we argued a lot, but there was always one commonality about when we argued. We argued because we were trying to get to a better solution.

00:00:48.000 — 00:01:02.950 · Speaker 3
Being a leader for 50 years and three companies in the same field can be very easy for your ego to be like, no, I know what I'm talking about. This is the direction. This is what needs to happen. How did you have to shift and say, no, I need to trust my people also.

00:01:02.990 — 00:01:04.350 · Speaker 1
Well, I, uh.

00:01:07.150 — 00:01:47.190 · Speaker 4
As you've been listening to this guest, you're probably starting to ask your questions. How do I apply this to our own situation, our own succession story at the company that I'm working in now at GW, CPA, we have built a custom GPT that you can find linked down in the description below on our website. We have loaded this GPT up with all of our knowledge about public accounting and tax preparation around succession planning.

We've also included the insights from the guests from the past two years of interviews at the start of succession. You can find all of that at the custom GPT use at any time of day. Start to apply it to your situation. Ask it the questions that are keeping you awake at night. Want to thank you for listening so far and let's get back to the episode.

00:01:47.350 — 00:02:02.350 · Speaker 5
Welcome to the Art of succession podcast with Barrett Young. Join us as we explore the strategies, stories and insights that shape the journey of leadership transitions and business success. no matter where you find yourself along the journey, this is the podcast where you'll find the tools to make it happen.

00:02:02.390 — 00:02:28.990 · Speaker 3
My name is Barry Young and this is the Art of succession podcast. My guest today is Bob Laub, serial entrepreneur, engineer and inventor. He started and sold multiple companies in his career, with the most recent one being sold to family and still advising in a limited capacity. His latest undertaking was seeing a unique need for an everyday object, and he's here to share his experience with us on the podcast today.

Bob, welcome to the Art of succession, Bert.

00:02:29.030 — 00:02:32.270 · Speaker 1
Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to our discussion.

00:02:32.350 — 00:02:47.670 · Speaker 3
Very good. So that is my first question I always lead with is what is it that interests you in this conversation? What is it that brings you to the Art of succession podcast? What is it that you would want our guests to walk away with from this conversation? Most important?

00:02:47.710 — 00:04:02.930 · Speaker 1
Well, you know, uh, as you say, I have become an inventor. Uh, in the latest thing I've invented was the the drink coaster, when we call it the the ultimate drink coaster company. And uh, uh, it's the only coaster in the entire world that works. And I invented it because I never found a drink coaster in my entire life that did work, and I it's kind of been a pet peeve.

And, uh, it it all culminated, uh, back in October of 2023 when I was at my daughter's house and in Atlanta, and we were having a couple cocktails before we went out to a very nice restaurant. We were all dressed to our nines, and I, I picked up my Manhattan to take a sip of it. And this a leather coaster like this one right here fell off and landed on my beautiful silk tie, my suit coat on my pants, and down on down on her, uh, floor.

A carpet and wood floor and carpet. And that left a stain on my silk tie that was was not able to be removed. So that's what I told my daughter Kelly. I said, okay, I'm going to invent a drink coaster that works. And this is the final product.

00:04:03.170 — 00:04:18.250 · Speaker 3
Okay. Let's get started with like what brought you to this point? Can you share just a little bit of where your industry was, the businesses that you started. And let's let's go back in time to those to that experience that you've gained over the years.

00:04:18.290 — 00:06:43.400 · Speaker 1
I'm a engineer from Georgia Tech and graduated in 1968 and went to work for American Air Filter in Louisville, Kentucky, spent five years with them and learning the air pollution control business and, uh, being, uh, kind of an entrepreneurial type of guy. Uh, I ran into a fellow that we were giving speeches throughout the, uh, college system in Georgia talking about air pollution control and the and the solutions and controls.

And, uh, at lunch, we would have, uh, discussions with my future partner, and we did that for a couple of years. And by 1972, John Halligan and I just started to start our first air pollution control business, and we ran that eight years before we sold it to a Swedish company, AB Barco, and we worked for them as executive vice president and vice president for three years.

And then we decided that we were too much entrepreneurs to be working for somebody else. So we started a second company called Amyris Incorporated. We ran that business, started from the beginning and developed it and, and grew it to a pretty good sized company and went on the Nasdaq exchange. And then we ended up selling it in 1996.

And we we retired at that point in time and we started playing golf. But, you know, after 6 or 7 years of retirement, uh, my past employees from MI6, called me up and said, Bob, you need to start another company. And I was getting kind of tired of building things around the farm and the and the garden and all this kind of stuff.

And I thought, well, you know, I'm still a young guy. I'm only like, I was think I was like 60 years old at the time. So I did start a new company and, uh, we ran that for 20 more years. And I retired at the end of 23. Another air pollution control company called Amr air, and I sold it to one of my employees and friends, and he's been operating for the last 6 or 7 years himself.

And I just kind of consult once in a while at this point. So it's been an exciting ride through the years. I, as I think I told you before we started this conversation, I enjoyed my work so much, I never felt like I worked.

00:06:43.400 — 00:06:51.280 · Speaker 3
So, I mean, you started three companies that were in the exact same field or in the same vein of development.

00:06:51.320 — 00:08:11.750 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Way it worked out. Buried. When you start out in the beginning in 72, we were we were really neophytes. Although we were entrepreneurs, we we started small. Uh, we started testing smokestacks, which is where we got started. Then six months into business, we fabricated our first bag house for an asphalt plant, and we installed it and we saw, gosh, we make a lot more money doing that than you climb in smokestack.

So we said, hey, why don't we get a fabrication shop? And so we did. So we moved up. We moved up the gradual ladder, the scale, so to speak. And after six years of doing, we did nuclear power plant testing, we did air pollution control testing, we did fabrication, erection and equipment manufacturing. And we were so, so reasonably successful for a small company.

We we only we never did over $10 million a year in business during those years we were acquired by AB Barco, which was a Swedish company, and they needed all of our talents. But they had a unique product called a compact cell filter that they thought would be revolutionize the filtration business in the United States.

We tried to take that to market for them for about three years and and found out it really wasn't a solution. They thought it was. And therefore that's why we started our next business.

00:08:11.790 — 00:08:19.550 · Speaker 3
Okay. Were you up market again with that next business, or was it basically just restarting with you and your partner as owners of the same kind of.

00:08:19.590 — 00:08:31.950 · Speaker 1
My partner and I restarted by ourselves again and and but we because of our exposure in the first business we were more regional business to the southeastern part of the United States.

00:08:32.150 — 00:08:32.590 · Speaker 3
Okay.

00:08:32.630 — 00:08:59.980 · Speaker 1
But because of the exposure we got with AB Barco, we were in all of the United States and Canada with representatives and knowledge of the business. So the second business became a total North American continent type of business. And we even did business in Europe because of our association with AB Barco.

So it was a it was another leap in, in succession, so to speak.

00:08:59.980 — 00:09:32.620 · Speaker 3
So I mean, you guys start this company, you're 25, 26 years old. The first one, right. Talk to me about your progression as a leader. Were you on the operational side? Were you on the like CEO visionary side of the company? How did you progress through these companies and how did you figure out, because you said you never felt like you worked a day.

You loved everything that you did. As you look back on your career, what aspects really did you love about entrepreneurship and which ones did you hire out and have other people that love that aspect?

00:09:32.660 — 00:10:50.410 · Speaker 1
Well, I would we were fortunate, and my partner, John Halligan, he and I were, uh, became great friends and we were still friends even today after knowing each other since 1970, and we've had a good lifetime relationship. And but John and I were the perfect fit for partners because what he liked to do, I didn't.

And what I didn't like to do, he liked. So we were we were the perfect complement to each other. And we we lined up such that I was in charge of all pre-contract matters, from sales and marketing to managing the representative system, and John was in charge of post contract from the time we got an order to the time of processing that order, to all the ancillary requirements of equipment and managing the people and and the erection and the fabrication, etc., we both had 100% responsibilities in that area, but we oftentimes crossed over because John became through the years an extremely good salesman, and he made me a better engineer because of the association of the post contract work.

So we integrated well together and became great friends. Lifetime friends.

00:10:50.450 — 00:11:41.600 · Speaker 3
That's great to hear. Um, I mean, over the past 15 years or so, this has taken on a name. It's called it's like the visionary integrator model of successful companies. And you being an inventor, I can see how you would fit in like the creative side, the sales side, the pre delivery side. And then the integrator is like the operations like here's what actually fulfilling the orders and everything.

So I mean that's great that partnerships are very difficult as as you I'm sure are aware of. Um but to have a 50 plus year uh friendship and partnership is, is fantastic. Were there any times where one of you wanted to go at a different pace than the other one, or like one of the one of the options to sell came up and one had to be convinced?

Or how did you guys work through that over the years?

00:11:41.640 — 00:12:46.200 · Speaker 1
Well, John and I, we we argued a lot about a lot of things. Yeah, but but there was always one commonality about when we argued. We argued because we were trying to get to a better solution. And that be because of that, the genuine intended purpose of our arguments always to get to the better solution. Those arguments were almost fun because you brought out these different viewpoints and you discussed the different viewpoints, and we would always come to a a conclusion that we both totally agreed in.

And that was really fun having those kind of debates and, and interaction and getting to the right solution. And we got to a lot of right solutions along the way which was made. Being an entrepreneur, being a, you know, you got to work long hours when you're an entrepreneur and sometimes it wears on you. But when you're having fun, it's not.

It's not as wearying as you think it is. And I always had fun.

00:12:46.240 — 00:13:07.680 · Speaker 3
Talk to me about, I guess, maybe a section of the career or a period where you made a huge risk, you took a huge risk and something didn't work out, something failed. And then how you and John worked through that, bounced back from that, learn from that to to move forward, because that's also part of being an entrepreneur is trying things that don't work.

00:13:07.720 — 00:14:48.870 · Speaker 1
That's true. And and we ran upon that happening about two years into our second company. America is, uh, we had a big, big job proposal out on a steel mill in this country. It was about a $7 million project back in 1983. That was a big deal. Okay. And so we believed that we had such the right solution. And we were working so well with the, uh, with the people within the steel company that we thought the order was surely ours.

Okay. And at the same time, we had a we had a another opportunity. We're working with a paper mill with a much smaller deal, just about a million and a half dollar deal. Well, lo and behold, that $7 million opportunity in the steel mill. The client thought we were upper management, thought we were too small a company for them to do business with, and they chose not to do business, and they took the order away from us.

So that was a crusher because we thought that was, boy, that was going to be a great job for us. Fortunately, we were saved by the pulp and paper mill. They gave us the million and a half to order, but that we were we were sweating bullets at the time and, uh, it took us, uh, it took us about 12 months to get over that loss.

And so we learned from that thing. Never, never put your eggs in one basket. Always have a lot of baskets going on at one time, and if you lose one of your baskets, it's not going to be your demise. Well, that loss was not our demise, but it certainly cost us a challenge.

00:14:49.590 — 00:15:00.470 · Speaker 3
Had you guys already started to scale in order to appeal for that larger contract, or did done smaller ones for them? So you lost a chunk of that 7 million in them turning away the bigger job or.

00:15:00.550 — 00:15:32.790 · Speaker 1
No, this would this would have been a new client to in the steel industry. So we didn't have any previous experience with them and that's why they. It's ironic, but years later we did regular business with them. But in that particular early stages of that, they thought we were a little too small. But we grew up by four years later, and then we started doing regular business with them, and it was no longer a problem.

We had grown bigger and we were more substantial. So. Gotcha. It worked out.

00:15:32.830 — 00:15:45.780 · Speaker 3
I guess I'm just trying to understand for the listeners how not getting a $7 million contract would put you in a bad position. Is it just that it had taken all your attention for so long through the proposal process that.

00:15:45.820 — 00:16:38.130 · Speaker 1
Yes, well, it did. We were we were consuming our resources to get that contract both pre-contract and post contract. Why? Because we made a lot of drawings. We made a lot of sales visits. We made a lot of plant visits. And but one of the things we always did, we never overcommitted as far as a financial commitment to anything that was anything but an order.

In other words, we, John and I, had enough resources that we could scale up very quickly with new people. We knew a lot of engineers, a lot of people in the construction business. And so we were we never overstaffed to get ourselves in trouble. So we, we, we always staffed up after we got the business. And so in that light, we were we were always on the, the right side of the cash flow.

00:16:38.170 — 00:17:01.530 · Speaker 3
Okay, great. Um, tell me, just over the the decades of the experience, tell me about a time you and John went a direction that maybe was counter to what? The rest of your competitors or, you know, a risk that you took in that where you saw in the future. And you're like, we need to move this way, even though everybody else is saying the same.

The sanity, the sure money is over here. What's that look like?

00:17:01.530 — 00:18:28.130 · Speaker 1
Most of our competition in the early days were equipment only suppliers. Okay. They they supplied the basic air pollution control equipment and maybe the the fan, the primary prime mover that goes with the equipment. But John and I saw a a much more advantageous ability to do turnkey systems. In other words, you give me the problem.

Let me provide the total solution for you. And so that is a route we went down that was very counter to what our competition was doing. And that and that worked out very well for us because people in the world, whether they were in steel, cement, pulp and paper, whatever they wanted, total solutions they did didn't want just equipment.

And so we when we provided the total solution, you take a piece of equipment, it was a factor of one. If you supply the whole systems, that's four times the amount. So in other words, your sales volume and profitability quadrupled if you did the whole system. And that's how we grew our business by going into total system supply with total solutions.

And it would. But when you do that you take on additional responsibilities. But we weren't afraid of it because we were very good engineers.

00:18:28.160 — 00:18:39.560 · Speaker 3
Gotcha. Okay. Is this a matter of, like, the equipment suppliers would go in, they'd do the install, and then they'd walk away. But you guys were also doing, like, providing the service after the initial setup to.

00:18:39.600 — 00:19:01.160 · Speaker 1
Know they these equipment suppliers would simply ship the equipment to the job site. Let the client worry about how they would get it installed. We did it all though. You know, you give us the problem, we give you the solution and it's turnkey. And when we're done, you have the problem solved. And that's that was our approach that was different than our competition.

00:19:01.200 — 00:19:18.680 · Speaker 3
I'd imagine that made happier customers. Also, just because you guys had the experience of calibrating your own equipment and and getting everything ready to go. They didn't have to figure it out. And, you know, follow instructions or bring in a consultant, which is probably what most of those companies had to do, is hire somebody else to come in and set it up.

00:19:18.680 — 00:19:57.990 · Speaker 1
So that's correct. Yeah. And that was good because after we got the system installed, we always stayed on board with training. Training sessions for the most of these operations were three shift operations, so we would have training schools for each of the three shifts, and that may go on for as much as a month after we finish the job.

That was that training school business was very helpful to our our clients and customers. And the word got around all the industries that, hey, you Amarah does does the complete job. They don't leave, just leave you with the equipment they get. They give you the total solution.

00:19:58.030 — 00:20:30.790 · Speaker 3
Okay, awesome. I want to move to the third company now. So you've been retired for 6 or 7 years. I'm tired of playing golf every day. And and like you said, your employees came and said, please come and start another company. One of the things that entrepreneurs get accused of all the time is boredom. Getting bored with something.

But you've started three companies in the same industry. Similar problems, maybe scaling up a little bit there. Was there ever any concern with that third one of like, here we go again. We're doing this or what's your mindset at that point.

00:20:30.830 — 00:22:12.380 · Speaker 1
No, because it was 2000, 2003 is when I got my previous employees in America, uh, ringing me up on the phone and said, Bob, you need to start a new business. And I had been retired for a little over six years at that point. And, you know, can only build so many swing sets and you can only build so many, uh, bridges across little creeks and such as that.

And I did all those things, and we had a great time with the, with the family and children. But their request for me to do that and knowing the capability of the people that was requesting this, I thought, okay, I'll do that. We'll start a business and I'll be your leader. And I was well known and I was well known throughout the United States.

And so my name carried a lot of weight in the air pollution control industry as far as immediate and very well thought of experience and know how. And so that that was what got the business, the name and reputation to start. But my people, the people in the that wanted me to start this business, both pre contract and post contract, were so talented and so experienced, I didn't have to work hard.

Okay, they did the work both pre-contract and post contract and carried the ball. Of course I went to meetings and participated in the sales and the closure of the business and and and did things in post contract as well. But my people were so knowledgeable and so good at what they did. I almost was a figurehead, okay?

And I liked that new position too, because I didn't have to work as hard.

00:22:12.420 — 00:22:20.860 · Speaker 3
I like it. And this one, did you own this one 100% yourself, or did you have other people working in that one with you? Did the leadership team have an ownership stake.

00:22:20.900 — 00:22:26.460 · Speaker 1
I owned a controlling interest in the company, but I had two other partners.

00:22:26.500 — 00:22:27.020 · Speaker 3
Gotcha.

00:22:27.060 — 00:22:29.620 · Speaker 1
That had a minority interest.

00:22:29.660 — 00:23:07.660 · Speaker 3
Okay, I wanted to ask this because, you know, being a leader for 50 years and in three companies in the same field, it can be very easy for you. I imagine it can be very easy for your ego to be like, no, I know what I'm talking about. This is the direction. This is what needs to happen. How did you see in that new position the give and take of you're an engineer, you know what you're doing, you guys.

You know what customer is like. You've proven that over, over the years. How did you have to shift and say, no, I need to trust my people also and give and take on the input and everything from them to how did that how did that push you?

00:23:07.700 — 00:24:20.160 · Speaker 1
Well, it was, interestingly enough, I hired people into my first, second and third company that came from where I were. I learned my trade at American Air Filter in Louisville, Kentucky. Several of the key people that I hired into my first company, and Amr and Amr, my third company, came from, uh, people like American Air Filter and Wheeler Breeder and the big companies that were in the air pollution control business.

So these were very skilled and knowledgeable people. Okay. Uh, and they knew about like, for instance, I had the, the best venturi scrubber engineer in the country working with me and still does to this day in the even in the company that, uh, uh, were still running in America. Uh, he's still working to this day.

I'm 81 years old and and Jean is 79, and we're he's still doing his scrubbers, but he's only a consultant now because he, he gives, uh, we have a gentleman that took over the scrubber division, and, uh, Jean only consults if, uh, if necessary.

00:24:20.200 — 00:24:41.920 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. I mean, obviously, you had the. You have the story. Let's shift to the coaster. Now. You have the story of dinner at your daughter's and the the need that you saw there for the coaster. How much of a overlap was there between you said you've been running that one for about six years. So it sounds like there's about four years overlap between the two companies.

00:24:41.920 — 00:24:54.000 · Speaker 1
I'm not sure I'm following you there. When you say the six years this. I was at my daughter's in October of 2023. Okay, okay. And when?

00:24:54.040 — 00:24:56.520 · Speaker 3
So you had already stepped away from the third company?

00:24:56.560 — 00:25:59.880 · Speaker 1
Exactly. Yes, I had. And, uh, as a matter of fact, December 31st, 2023 was my last day of employment. So it was just as I was closing out my involvement in the business on a regular basis, that this coaster thing came to fruition and it was just an. It was just an idea, but it was, as I said, the, you know, the coaster fell on my silk, tied my my favorite silk tie, ruined it.

And and I said to my daughter, said, you know, these coasters that stick your stick to your drink when you're having a sip of it and then fall on your clothes or on your cocktail table or on the floor and stain it, stain your furniture or whatnot, they got to do something about that. Well, you know, there's there's hundreds of coasters on the market today, but honestly, uh, this is the only one that really works.

And the reason that's true, it's engineered. It's an engineered product.

00:25:59.880 — 00:26:09.480 · Speaker 3
So I guess talk to me about that. Like what is the default coaster is what caulk or some kind of absorbent material that's supposed to.

00:26:09.520 — 00:27:19.140 · Speaker 1
Well, you know, most of the coaster, 80% of the coasters in the world are either paper cork or some foam with cork backing on them or whatever. None of them are particularly absorbent of the condensate, because if you been into a bar and they give you a cardboard coaster with a Heineken label on or something, if you if you stay there long and if they saturate and they leave a moisture stain on the bar.

And of course, that's not a desirable thing, but a little cardboard coaster doesn't cost much, you know, it's a ten cent item. And so they're used 80% of the world market is those kind of coasters that are just throwaway coasters. But this coaster that I've invented is for people in in their homes. If you've got some really nice furniture, whether it's it's in your golf club, your home, your professional association, and you want to protect your furniture and you want to have something that's going to do that.

00:27:19.260 — 00:27:19.700 · Speaker 3
Gotcha.

00:27:19.740 — 00:28:28.020 · Speaker 1
And that's what this does, is this protects furniture and every professional, amateur, uh, domestic setting that you could possibly think of. And we're selling it in all areas today. Be that, uh, a promotion, this can be a very promotional item. We have some clients in the in the golf world and in the beverage world that are buying these and so as promotional items to their customers.

And so but the key thing here is this coaster does what it's intended to do and that's convey collect contain condensate so it doesn't get on your clothes, your cocktail table or your carpet. This is your coaster because it has capillary action in the in the grid that you see on top here, these little one millimeter semicircles that are in each of the grids, both horizontally and vertically vertically, cause the condensate that comes off your glass to be delivered into the collection, reservoir or pan, and that that keeps it from getting on, getting on any of your valuables.

00:28:28.020 — 00:28:35.100 · Speaker 3
So it pools in the coaster. And then I guess the key is when you pick up your drink, it also stays on the table and doesn't come with the cup.

00:28:35.140 — 00:28:48.660 · Speaker 1
Exactly. The grid. The grid effect doesn't allow it to stick to your glass or cup, and so you always get. It's always easily for your drink container to remove from your coaster without adhering to it.

00:28:48.700 — 00:29:05.060 · Speaker 3
Gotcha. Okay. I mean, you stepped into the next opportunity right away. There was no two year, three year break here. Um, what was it that led to the point of being ready to sell the third company? Um, was it just, uh. Right, people right in the right seats kind of thing, or.

00:29:05.380 — 00:30:23.570 · Speaker 1
Well, the, uh, gentleman that runs the business had been an employee of mine in my second country for more than 10 or 15 years. Then he went off and went to another business for several years, and he worked in a couple different industries. And and I knew Tom knew Tom well. And we got along well. And I called Tom up and I said, Tom, you know, I think I'm getting ready in the next few years to, to retire.

And what happened to my second business is a large company. A large company purchased it. We were on the Nasdaq exchange, but it was a house of cards and it fell apart and I didn't. I told Tom, I said, look, I want to keep this air pollution control company going. I want it to be my legacy. I know you're you're a great mechanical engineer.

You can run this. You know the business. Why don't you come and work with me a few years, and then we'll let you take over the business You run it at infinitum. And so that's what he did. He came over. He came to work in late 2019, and by the end of 2023 and the beginning of 2024, he took the business over. And he's been running it ever since.

And he's doing a great job.

00:30:23.610 — 00:30:43.570 · Speaker 3
Okay. All right. Was there any concern with the talk of your exit again of I'm going to be I'm going to get bored. I'm going to not have something. Or were you already saying, I've got other ideas. I've got other things I want to try. I want to try some inventions, different things like that, that had renewed that interest.

That brought you back in 2003.

00:30:43.570 — 00:33:14.670 · Speaker 1
Well, you know, you know, when you get up close to your 80s, you know, you kind of run out of gas a little bit in terms of your energy and enthusiasm. But see, I had I had already by I started playing golf in 96 when I retired for my second company. And, and I found out that I could play the game of golf pretty well, but my shortcoming was long distance putting.

So I began, I had to figure out how to engineer a method by which I could long distance accurately. And that's how punting by the numbers came about. And for from 1996 1997 until I wrote the book in 2021, I was taking notes and and figuring out how to hit a long distance punt accurately. So either went in the hole or I had an easy two putt, because if you can two putt the green and get get in in 36 putts in a 72 yard round, you're going to be a pretty good golfer.

Well I'm seven. Even at age 81 now I'm still a seven handicap, which is pretty good for an old guy. And but what has been key to the whole thing is putting. And so I was developing this putty and I had many, many of my friends tell me along the way, Bob, you need to write a book about this. And I was taking my little notes and I had to make sure the method was reproducible, repeatable, accurate, and it could be done by anyone.

And it was about physics and and engineering mechanics. But it had to be simple. Had I so I, I created an arithmetic approach to it so that anybody, whether you're a recreational amateur or a professional golfer, you can take you can read this 82 book, two page book. Look at my two videos and you can practice it for six weeks, three times a week, for six weeks.

You'll find out if it's good for you. And it took me from averaging 40 to 44 putts around in my last year. Uh, 19, 20, 25. My average number of putts per round were 30.5 putts per round. In the pros. They try the pros on the tour. Their objective is to is to shoot for 28 putts per round, which is really, really good.

Not I, I'm not that good. But I mean they're.

00:33:14.870 — 00:33:19.910 · Speaker 3
From 45 to 30. So that's a that's a pretty significant. It is.

00:33:20.350 — 00:34:02.660 · Speaker 1
I tell people in my book anyone you will improve your putting game 4 to 5 putts, oh 4 to 5 strokes per round I guarantee it. And if you're if you do as well as I did, you're going to really be happy with your game because you're going to become close to a scratch golfer. So that was my that was what I was doing from 96 through 21.

And then this coaster thing came later. So but both things are in. I have a publicist and a, in a literary agent that's been selling this book all over the world for me. So we're doing really well with the book, and we're doing pretty well with the coaster, but the coaster is still growing.

00:34:02.700 — 00:34:14.419 · Speaker 3
So I mean, 96 first retirement. You're you're golfing for yourself at that point and you, you got bored of it. Or you could only do that in construction projects and, you know, woodworking and stuff.

00:34:14.419 — 00:34:33.860 · Speaker 1
So yeah, I was playing I was playing golf 3 to 5 days a week. And you know, I, you know, and that's a lot of golf. And I since 96, I played 3000 plus rounds of golf. And so I played a lot of golf and I've enjoyed every minute. The only regret I have is I didn't start it earlier in my life.

00:34:34.060 — 00:35:19.330 · Speaker 3
But it sounds like what the key for you stepping into your second retirement was. You've now figured out a way to turn this hobby into a problem solving solution for somebody else. And your entire your entire career has been applying engineering and math and, um, just a logical solution to a common problem.

Um, and it sounds like once you have that in place and the right team around you. Your retirement was like promoting that going on podcasts. You know, whatever you need to do to to sell the book and improve other people's games, is that accurate? It and move beyond just I need to get better at golf for myself too.

Now solving a new problem for a new audience.

00:35:19.450 — 00:35:56.610 · Speaker 1
Exactly. Well, as I've said to people, the one thing I hope that I get from writing this book is I hope that I help every recreational amateur or pro golfer improve their golf game by being a better putter. If I get if I can accomplish that mission and get that message out to everybody, there's 30 million golfers in the United States.

There's 300 million golfers worldwide. There's 100 miniature golfers worldwide. If I could just reach a 10% of those people and they could read my book, that would make me happy as a clam.

00:35:56.650 — 00:36:24.770 · Speaker 3
Yeah. I've, um. Reasonably enough, as a as a CPA. I've played enough golf in my life, and my dad was a golfer and always wanted to get me golfing as a kid. It's not something I love, but I know for me, I prefer driving. I prefer the long game because putting is just so frustrating and I'm like, it, it it is. It's like I can get to the green and a reasonable enough amount strokes, but then I double it just trying to putt and yeah.

00:36:24.810 — 00:37:01.920 · Speaker 1
So yeah, oh that's exactly what I was doing. And you know here I was, you know, I went up to Maggie Valley, North Carolina and took, uh, took lessons at the PGA school up there. And I got good with the first 13 clubs in my bag. I was pretty good with them. Good enough to shoot. If I had decent punting, I was I was ready to shoot in the low 80s, but I was shooting in the mid and high 90s until I figured out this quantitative method of fighting and then my game, and then I became a low 80 player and a high 70 player, and and, uh, just because of my putty.

00:37:01.920 — 00:37:34.760 · Speaker 3
I deal with a lot of business owners in succession and exit planning. And that's always the concern is like, if I'm not a business owner, if I'm not an entrepreneur, who am I? But I think your story with this illustrates you're you're not your identity is maybe not wrapped up in the company that you're leaving behind, but you're not going to change.

You're going to find new ways, new solutions. Right. Would you would you would you say that that's an accurate reassurance you would give them is you're you're still creative. You're still going to solve problems. It's just going to look different.

00:37:34.760 — 00:38:49.400 · Speaker 1
I think you hit the nail on the head. I, I see myself as a problem solver. Okay. And you know, I, I it takes me a while like, uh, when I was young, um, and, uh, having conversations with my associate or colleague or or employ however I viewed them, I would be too quick in my response. As I grew older and more wiser, I learned to listen carefully to my people.

Be a very, very good listener and cogitate and think about what people tell you before you draw your response. Pistol out and shoot back at them. Because if you give people what people have, are people in general are pretty bright. And if you give their input and their council consideration and think about it, you always derive a better solution.

And I and that's what I've learned through my lifetime, is don't be too quick on your response. Cogitate on things. Think about things mulling over and then come back with a response the next day that's more intelligent.

00:38:49.440 — 00:39:27.790 · Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, that's hard. That is so hard to take to heart. But I get it, because the complaint among all of us is. Everybody always brings their problems to me. And it's like, well, how quick are you answering them? It's like people are going to take the easiest way out. And if the easiest way out is go ask Barrett what Barrett wants to do, that you've created your own mess.

So so your advice is so then either ask them what they would do or make them wait, make, give, or take a day to to dwell on it, to think about it, to come up with a better solution than the quick response. So that's so hard though. It is so hard.

00:39:27.910 — 00:39:54.340 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it it takes I mean, you know, I, I, I can't say that I do that 100% of the time, but I, it's a, it's a high majority of the way I operate these days. I, I find I'll tell you I find that even works really good in marriage. In marriage to your wife. Your wife gives you some obtuse commentary that you would fire back.

Maybe an obtuse response.

00:39:54.380 — 00:39:55.900 · Speaker 3
Obviously you need to do this.

00:39:55.940 — 00:40:22.500 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, that would probably get you in trouble. Whereas if you would take that obtuse comment and dwell on it a little bit and give it some thought and, and see, you know, how did that come about and what should the proper response be? Uh, sleep on it overnight. Think about it, and I'll guarantee you it'll give a better response.

That's good for both of you.

00:40:22.540 — 00:40:48.940 · Speaker 3
Yeah. How do you how do you develop that or what's the response that you give? Is it just can I take a day to think about it. Is it really that easy? Because I have the same problem with clients and, you know, being an entrepreneur or being a business owner or problem solver, you wants to your ego wants you to be brilliant and be the go to person.

And it's like, I can't risk them going away and not getting an answer. So how do you train that into yourself.

00:40:49.300 — 00:41:34.020 · Speaker 1
Lots of things it can. Lots of things can. Because of the simplicity. Can, can you can just have a quick response. No problem. When you run a problem. A rather complex problem. And somebody comes up with a what is deemed to be their reasonable solution. I think you say I my response is, hey, you know, I never thought of what you're what you just said before, but that's such a good thought.

I think I got to think about that a little bit. You got to give me a little time to come back to you on that one. And so let me cogitate on that overnight, and I'll be back to you tomorrow on it. So because I like what you're thinking, but I'm not sure I'm in total agreement.

00:41:34.060 — 00:41:56.730 · Speaker 3
Gotcha. Okay. So it's not every basic question. Let me get time to think about that, because I know that's for my younger employees and stuff. That's the fear is they're going to be seen as oh wow, they don't know the answer. You know. Or they're going to they're going to go Google the answer and then come back to me.

But you're not saying for everything, but you are saying for the ones that are more complex and.

00:41:56.770 — 00:42:25.890 · Speaker 1
Right, exactly. Well, I mean, you know, like you say, you got Google today, you got ChatGPT. I mean, you can. You don't even have to be able to write a good letter anymore. Oh, you have to just put your idea on paper, give it to ChatGPT. And you got an excellent letter, you know, so I mean, there's so many AI skills available today that that make you appear to be maybe smarter than you are because of the of the resources available to you by yours.

00:42:25.890 — 00:42:48.160 · Speaker 3
You're encouraging them to say, don't be afraid to say, I need some time to to develop a better response. Don't be afraid that people are going to say, wow, this person's an idiot and can't come up with something off the top of their head. Patience. And what's going to come to you in the middle of the night?

2 a.m. you're going to have that flash of insight that that would have been missing with the instant response. Correct.

00:42:48.200 — 00:42:48.840 · Speaker 1
Exactly.

00:42:48.880 — 00:43:15.840 · Speaker 3
That's good. Talk to me about, I guess, the shift from. I mean, you've run multiple million dollar companies. You're now you've got the book, you've got the coaster. Talk to me about the shift in your expectations of, like, what success looks like, what running a team of 3 or 4 people versus running a team of 3 or 400 or 30 or 40, whatever the case might have been.

Talk to me just about that shift in your mind.

00:43:15.880 — 00:45:09.390 · Speaker 1
Well, you know, when I was really in business with the three significant air pollution control companies, that we were really big construction businesses, what it boils down to, because we did all aspects of the total job, and you run into all mannerisms of problems when you when you're doing the turn, the turnkey type system.

So that was even though it was a lot of fun, it was a lot of work. And consumed my lifetime doing it. But now with with having thought through the process of the golf book and just having a pet peeve. Solution by the coaster. Uh, by the way, my my daughter and son in law run this business called the Ultimate Drink Coaster Company.

And it's, you know, it's sold in Amazon Prime and in Google and all these different, uh, social medias you can buy it on. And, uh, so I'm not a, a big time. What I do for the coaster company now is to, to do these podcasts and explain why it's an engineered product, why it's really the only coaster in the world that really works and does what it's supposed to do and, and save your valuable furniture and the things that, that you don't want to condensate or heat from a drink to destroy.

So I, I'm, I'm kind of the spokesman on the podcast. So they run the business from, uh, sales and marketing to the fulfillment end of it manufacturing and all. We have manufacturing both in the USA and and in Asia. And, uh, we're growing the business more rapidly in North America than we are in Asia. But they're both coming along, and we're creating relationships with other people to help us grow the business internationally as well as domestically.

00:45:09.430 — 00:45:22.550 · Speaker 3
Okay. And does that require just a shift in your approach as an entrepreneur to be more of the spokesperson or to be more of the the idea guy that's now selling this?

00:45:22.790 — 00:46:49.460 · Speaker 1
Well, you get to a point in your life where, uh, your energy level is becoming somewhat reduced. And I when I became 70 years old, 11 years ago, I started to notice a little reduction in my energy level. I used to walk 18 holes of golf, and the energy was always there. And and then I found myself getting in a golf cart and riding and and playing, still playing three, 3 or 4 rounds of 18 holes per week.

Now I'm down to three rounds of golf, nine holes per week in a golf cart. And so the energy level just kind of fades with time. But it's interesting that the the what's between the ears never seems to fade unless you have to come upon a life threatening disease or what what's going on in the world these days?

But I've been fortunate in my I still have an acute mind like I've always had throughout my life. And so with that being, with that being said, I made a point in my life where I don't want a lot of challenges and but I'm still interested in talking and working with people on the coast through the book. Anything that you wanted?

Any new ideas you come come up with? I'd like to hear. And and give it some thought and tell you what I think.

00:46:49.500 — 00:47:04.460 · Speaker 3
Awesome. What is that role with your with your daughter and your son in law, like customer feedback or. This is what I'm hearing as I'm promoting this. Like how much interaction back and forth on decisions and stuff like that, are they relying on you? Are they coming to you for.

00:47:04.500 — 00:48:23.530 · Speaker 1
They don't rely on me for much. I, I do provide financial help and strength to the business and, uh, that I participate in that way. I participate with podcast. Uh, I'm a sounding board, you might say, like they're going to a trade show in Las Vegas. It's an NFL and sports related, uh, promotional companies out in Las Vegas for three days.

I think it's January 20th, 21st and 22nd and their sales, uh, sales director. And the two of them are going out and visiting all the booths out there and talking to all the people about the coaster. I don't have the energy to do what they're going to be doing, and I and I don't even pretend to, but they go out there and and they get amongst the in the sales marketing area and they'll come back and they'll kind of give me a summary report on their findings and, and what, what, what direction me might take because of what they found out.

So but I just kind of like I say, I play the role of a sounding board these days. You tell me what's on your mind and I'll tell you what I think. And, um, that can be very helpful to them sometimes. And sometimes it's, uh, it's not a value.

00:48:23.570 — 00:48:41.250 · Speaker 3
Okay. Awesome. Um, I mean, Bob, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate just the the lessons I'm learning from it. Um, but we've come to the end of our show before we jump into the lightning round. Was there anything that you wanted to add or anything that I didn't ask that you wanted to include?

00:48:41.290 — 00:49:41.520 · Speaker 1
Not really. I appreciate you having me number one and I and being allowing me to share with you, uh, my story about the ultimate drink coaster. And I think everybody should have, you know, it's kind of interesting. The average developed home in the developed world has 24 drink coasters in their home. Wow.

That's that's a statistic. Okay. And with the homes growing larger and larger these days, uh, there's going to be more coasters. So I only I only tell people, please, if you're going to get a coaster, please get one that works and protect your furniture. We had a we had a piece of furniture in our foyer up in our house that was not a quality, uh, coaster.

And it leaked condensate down onto the finish. It's an antique. It costs us several hundred dollars to have it repaired. So these. These little inexpensive coasters are the solution.

00:49:41.560 — 00:49:49.000 · Speaker 3
Awesome. All right. Um, with that, let's, uh, let's get into the lightning round. All right. Coffee or tea? And how do you prefer it?

00:49:49.040 — 00:49:59.640 · Speaker 1
Drink my coffee black. Do both. And. But watch my caffeine intake to no more than two cups of coffee or one glass of tea per day.

00:49:59.680 — 00:50:04.080 · Speaker 3
Okay. Um, pie or cake? And do you have a favorite kind? Yeah, I.

00:50:04.080 — 00:50:07.320 · Speaker 1
Like them both. Chocolate cake and cherry pie.

00:50:07.360 — 00:50:11.320 · Speaker 3
Okay. Chocolate cake. Chocolate icing. Like chocolate. All the way through.

00:50:11.360 — 00:50:12.120 · Speaker 1
You bet.

00:50:12.200 — 00:50:16.840 · Speaker 3
Yeah. All right. Um, do you have a favorite holiday and why?

00:50:16.960 — 00:50:58.470 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Uh, Christmas has always been my favorite holiday. And, uh, as a kid, you know, it's because of, uh, Santa Claus and all the things that are toys and toys and all that kind of stuff. And then as I am a Catholic Christian and, and, and I've spent my life, um, trying to be a good Christian and it's it's hard.

We know because I'm a sinner every day and, uh, but I always I try to think of the Lord every day when I get up and thank him for the day and and thank him for the family and my dogs and everything. And I love it's good.

00:50:58.510 — 00:51:04.790 · Speaker 3
Do you consider yourself a morning person or a night person? And do you have like a favorite routine that makes you look forward to that time?

00:51:04.790 — 00:51:50.470 · Speaker 1
I love the morning. I'm not a I'm not a night person at all. Try to go to bed no later than 10 or 1030 at night, and that's really late for me. But I like to get up around 6 to 7:00 in the morning, and I, I have a yellow Labrador and a and a cockapoo, and the Labrador is getting close to the end of his life. And so, uh, he's 13.5 years old, and we all we walked 3 or 3 miles every day.

But he's running out of gas, and, uh, but he's he's been my favorite boy on all of his life, and, uh, but so, uh, I'm very, very, um, careful to enjoy each day with him. And the little cockapoo that's only three years old is a lot of fun, too.

00:51:50.830 — 00:51:55.550 · Speaker 3
That's awesome. What is a common belief among entrepreneurs that you would want to challenge?

00:51:55.750 — 00:52:43.780 · Speaker 1
I think a common belief among entrepreneurs is that people think that when you go in business, you're going to be you're going to make a lot of money, you're going to be successful. It just doesn't happen that way. I mean, going in business is taking on a big challenge. And so for I would tell entrepreneurs, don't be afraid of going business, but believe.

Please know that when you do it, you're going to work twice as hard as if you stay with a large corporation. It was paying you salary and giving you 3 or 4 week vacations. You may not get any vacations the first 5 to 10 years. You're in your own business, but the rewards you get by having your own business far outweigh anything that you can get by working for somebody else.

00:52:44.260 — 00:52:50.580 · Speaker 3
Yeah, it's non-monetary rewards in most cases, but it's not a get rich quick scheme for sure.

00:52:50.620 — 00:52:51.700 · Speaker 1
Exactly.

00:52:51.780 — 00:52:56.580 · Speaker 3
Yeah, that's a good reminder. What's one thing that you would want your successor to remember you for?

00:52:56.620 — 00:53:14.380 · Speaker 1
I would hope they would know that. Number one, I was a very hard worker, and I was always willing to put my back to the wheel and push with them, regardless of how tired I was. I was never willing to give up because my motto is never, ever give up.

00:53:14.500 — 00:53:18.420 · Speaker 3
Okay, um, where are you finding creativity right now, Bob?

00:53:18.460 — 00:53:45.780 · Speaker 1
Well, I think it's kind of fun. I'm finding creativity in these podcasts because, uh, talking to people like you that are really, uh. You make me think. Okay, uh, you make me think about what is it that I really think? Because I want to give you a true response, and it kind of creates a it causes me to be creative about telling what I believe to be the truth.

And that's exciting.

00:53:45.780 — 00:54:00.140 · Speaker 3
I agree, I mean, that's why I love doing this is the the conversations just always go in very interesting directions and I gain something from every single one. So I appreciate you sharing that. So what's something coming up in the next year that's got you really excited?

00:54:00.140 — 00:54:38.890 · Speaker 1
Well, we my wife and I just finished a trip to Sicily and Italy for about three and a half weeks, and we loved it. And that was going to be our last trip across the pond. But we are going on an Alaskan cruise the middle of June, and we got two weeks planned to be in Alaska on a cruise ship and in a lot of different excursions.

And so I'm looking I'm excited about that. And then we spend, uh, we spend three months out in Southern California for the good weather in the summer because it's too hot here in Saint Louis.

00:54:39.890 — 00:54:42.210 · Speaker 3
Excellent. And first time to Alaska.

00:54:42.370 — 00:54:48.050 · Speaker 1
I've been there on business before, and and, uh, but I've never been there just for a vacation.

00:54:48.090 — 00:55:06.090 · Speaker 3
Very good. Uh, I know you'll enjoy that one. It's beautiful. I've not been, but I've seen my friends pictures, so I've. I've been via jealousy. Very good. So, Bob, as we wrap up the episode, where can people go to find out more about you? Your book, the coaster. Where do you want people to go?

00:55:06.130 — 00:56:52.520 · Speaker 1
Okay, well, I think, uh, I have, uh, two websites. Uh, Bob lobby.com. Uh, for my book or putting by the numbers.com. Uh, you can buy my book, uh, at Amazon. Amazon Prime. Barnes and Noble. You can Google it. My book is sold over a 350 brick and mortar bookstores throughout the United States. It's sold online all over the world so you can access it.

And if you really or are not a very good long distance putter like I was before I wrote this, you need to get this book because it's going to make you happy. You're going to become a better golfer and reduce your score, and you're going to be a happy golfer too. So that's my pitch on that one. And on the drink coaster.

The it's a it's available again through Prime and Amazon Prime. And it's it's available on all the social medias target Walmart and and those kind of big box stores. But you go to um the ultimate coaster co.com and uh, you can You can see the difference. We have all the different designs. We put university logos in here on this side.

And on the bottom side. We've we've sold two golf courses all over the country. We've we've sold it in various types of venues. So we, we uv print these things. So there you can put them in the dishwasher and, and the UV printing will stay with you for years and years. And so it's a it's a durable product. It works and they're inexpensive.

00:56:52.560 — 00:57:00.720 · Speaker 3
Awesome. Oh Bob I want to thank you just for your time sharing your wisdom and the conversation that we had today. I want to thank you for being on the Art of succession podcast.

00:57:00.760 — 00:57:07.360 · Speaker 1
Barrett, I want to thank you for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation. I almost wish we could do another hour.

00:57:08.320 — 00:57:12.280 · Speaker 3
We might have to have a follow up conversation, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

00:57:12.360 — 00:57:13.960 · Speaker 1
Okay, you take care now.