The Art of Succession

and that's just not the story of everybody but it 
was for me thankfully so it gave me some freedom  

to really go mess some stuff up in a in a safe 
place really I don't think practically it has  

to be you're an entrepreneur if you started a 
company I don't I don't think that's true at  

all what's your vision it's going to happen now 
maybe not yet maybe not that fast maybe not that  

direction but the vision is going to happen let's 
see how to how to do it so that's really what has  

allow me to be have any form of success what does 
it take to stay the course as an entrepreneur for  

the Long Haul how do we use both our failures and 
our successes to grow us as business owners and  

how do we keep coming back to the work ahead when 
the bright and shiny wears off this is the art of  

succession podcast and I'm your host Barrett young 
my guest today is Jason Blumer the CEO of two  

companies Blumer CPAs which specializes in design 
marketing and creative agencies and thriveal a  

network of entrepreneurial CPA firms that connect 
learn and grow together Jason's also the host of  

two podcasts the businessoloy show since 2013 and 
the Thrive cast since 2011 he and his uh Chief  

Operating Officer Julie run their businesses their 
virtual companies out of Greenville South Carolina  

where I've had the pleasure of visiting many times 
over the years for their annual conference deeper  

weekend Jason welcome to the artist succession 
cool Barrett do you know man how special this  

is to be on this show with you you I have known 
you forever we have been peers and colleagues  

in fighting through this incredible work we do for 
for clients so I am pumped to be here so much yeah  

thank you so much for being a guest um I can't 
believe we've known each other almost 15 years  

and never done a podcast episode together that 
is wild so we we've known each other for a while  

uh our show this show is about succession planning 
and this is this is a time of your life before I  

knew you that we're gonna talk we're gonna dig 
into here so okay I want to dig into taking over  

your dad's firm so this is pre- thriveal um yeah 
just give me some times and and dates and yeah  

how how did that happen yeah yeah yeah so as 
you know I celebrated 30 years of my career  

last year I was talking about that at deeper 
weekend which was kind of kind of weird and  

surreal for me um so but I did get into um Public 
Accounting in 98 went to kind of a regional firm  

um have have always been entrepreneurial as you 
know Barrett and I wanted to do things my own  

way so you I was in a firm and I thought I could 
do this better than them turns out it's a little  

bit harder than I than I thought it was um and my 
dad had started our firm in 97 um so he started a  

year before I went into public uh 97 and he start 
he bought just a little bookkeeping business and  

he was a CPA also he just wanted something small 
and then 2003 so I guess five years after he  

started I had been at that other firm and I said 
Hey Dad I want to I want to come run my own firm  

so I want to run my firm with you um and my wife 
and I living in another city at that time so we  

moved back to Greenville South Carolina which 
was our home and my dad said come on he said I  

don't have any money to pay you um he said so uh 
I have some money saved up uh from tax season so I  

can give you a little bit of that but you're gonna 
have to go get your own clients I'm like cool I'm  

not scared so uh in May 203 I started leading 
our firm Blumer CPAs with my dad okay so you  

long time ago so your dad started this firm or 
acquired this firm late in his career then yeah  

like with retirement already on the horizon yeah 
so yeah for the succession part my dad had was an  

accountant but he never was a CPA and so when 
I graduated college in 1993 he I went to start  

getting my CPA and he wanted to get his too so 
he he and I attended Becker together um we would  

travel up to Charlotte North Carolina actually me 
and my dad and my brother-in-law um who is also a  

CPA he runs a big firm in Charleston so we three 
went to uh take Becker in Charlotte and we just  

listened to n Becker tapes um old school people 
will know n Becker um and so yeah we got our CPA  

together uh which was which was a trip while my 
dad was running his firm I was at another firm uh  

and then we eventually uh came back together which 
was pretty cool so as we finished uh Becker we got  

our CPA I think uh my brother-in-law and my dad 
both beat me getting the CPA exam took me a while  

so I was trying to pass audit and I had never 
audited in my life uh when I was taking it uh I  

did go become an audit manager at that other firm 
but um yeah my dad started a very very small firm  

bookkeeping firm and that was a beautiful platform 
and foundation for me to come work with my dad  

to build something to build on top of it so here 
we are I never knew that story that's awesome my  

my dad also was an accountant and when I started 
taking the CPA exam he briefly considered it too  

but he'd always been in private he'd never had any 
public accounting experience and I'm like Dad got  

30 something years of experience as controllers 
for construction companies anybody who thinks CPA  

adds to that is nuts oh yeah well my dad did that 
he was like he was a controller for like a large  

Paving Company um and he's like I want to get my 
CPA so and he wanted to own his own business so  

so he he went and did it me so yeah very cool so 
then when by the time your dad's or you wanted  

to come join your dad's firm then that was the 
intent from the very beginning it's not like you  

worked with him for two or three years and then 
he decided to retire right no no I I wanted to go  

run the firm uh with my dad I wanted to eventually 
take over the firm and for you know I had I mean  

I had a lot to learn so uh I worked with my dad 
for uh for a number of years before we started  

doing some transition and he would you know give 
me some stock and things like that and it so that  

took a that took a little while um eventually I 
just kind of started growing The Firm took it in  

different directions you know started playing 
with pricing and Consulting and niching and uh  

trying to learn my way through those things and 
then he eventually said you know this is becoming  

your thing and uh I think I'm ready to be done 
cuz he was a just a he was a tax season guy you  

know he would do taxes well he did it all taxes 
accounting payroll we did every bit of it when  

you're a small firm uh but then he like like most 
people who have done it as long as he did you just  

get done and he's like you can have it now I think 
he he so he retired right before you founded Thal  

so like 2009 2010 I think think I you know what 
I can't even remember bear you like that might  

be something Julie may may remember but I can't 
remember when did he retire I can't remember when  

it was but it was probably around the time started 
Thal Thal was the fall of 2010 I think I had been  

blogging at thriveal a few years before that while 
I was working with my dad um yeah I think that's

right you came in in 200 three not as a 
partner at this point but kind of like  

an employee earning your way into ownership 
yeah and work with him for about six years  

gradually becoming more and more owner of 
the company during that time yeah yeah over  

time yeah and it's yeah and just like any 
kind of family succession it's pretty cool  

I mean it it's it can be different working with 
a family member it can also be good in a lot of  

ways because there's a lot of leeway uh for you 
to kind of change things so that's what I did  

prior to joining your dad other than this I want 
to run a firm like what did you know about this  

was it called Blumer CPAs or was uh no it then it 
was H Marcus Blumer CPA PC okay very traditional  

name yep my dad's name what did you know about his 
success as a b like what did you know did you know  

what you were stepping into at that point other 
than he didn't have cash to pay you anything yet  

no i d dude I didn't do no planning man I didn't 
know nothing I'm like Dad I'm out of here man okay  

I'm out of this firm can I come work with you 
that's it you're at a traditional CPA firm you  

know what they do you know you can do it better 
you see another traditional CPA firm that's your  

dads and you're like I'm taking over your firm 
Dad yeah I'm taking over your firm you know for  

me it was I just want to go run my own firm I just 
had always wanted to do that run my own business  

so I wanted my dad wasn't opportunity to do that 
and my dad was W he would welcome me to come do  

that which is cool so I did not know anything 
about doing any of that okay was retirement  

already on his radar then at that point or did he 
expect to be there for another 15 years with you  

I I think he knew he would probably retire at 
some point I don't think he was thinking about  

it then okay but but probably uh shortly after 
I came in he probably started thinking um this  

is something you know that I could hand over to 
Jason and I was pretty I was pretty upfront about  

sharing that with him too so I know you know 
in generational firm sometimes the parent is  

pushing something on a child or not doing that my 
dad didn't do that sometimes the child is wanting  

to move faster maybe than the older generation 
wants to go I think I drove a lot of that so I  

would have conversations with my dad wanting to 
own wanting to lead it uh so I was more upfront  

and my dad was fine with that you know he trusted 
me and and I was still working with him learning  

a lot from him so okay great how was the pace of 
that I mean you said you drove those conversations  

but you stepped into this company you want to run 
it it's clients you did not sell to that you did  

not bring in right in some of some of the cases 
it's probably clients your dad didn't even sell  

to originally like he acquired him 
from a previous one yeah so how

maddening is that uh when you step into something 
and you're just like I have this dream and you  

guys are not aligned with the dream but I don't 
own the place yet so I've Got a Baby Steps kind  

of thing so yeah no it is maddening and you know 
and it was maddening for me but maddening for that  

client base too uh you know and I and I know it 
was and I mean some of them spoke up you know  

my my dad gave me a lot of freedom so I started 
really you know getting a logo we needed a logo uh  

so I got a logo I got um uh letterhead it was four 
color letterhead is expensive letterhead um so I  

was do you know getting all kind of letterhead 
um and then I would start putting a lot of the  

tax returns uh on this fancy letterhead 
paper with really cool four colors uh and  

the clients yeah but see at the same time I've got 
these fancy letterhead and I'm printing off these  

nice tax returns with a cover letter on letterhead 
binding these things in coilbound binders I just  

thought man we're going to do this right man and 
these were not clients that really I should have  

been doing this for but I didn't know I was just 
like making the place really look good and um and  

so at the same time I was Raising prices CU you 
know like you're going to pay more this is all the  

the prices were way too low um and some of 
them said something they're like you know I  

like the way your dad did things uh he didn't 
charges for all this colorful letter head you  

know and I'm like I'm gonna fire you if you 
don't if you say that again so don't you see  

don't you see the value inherent in four-color 
letterhead right four-color letterhead how can  

you not want me to double your tax return 
price from $100 to $200 come on Pony up  

Pony up the cash I need $200 for this tim40 so 
where are because so you move you have moved  

since then away from 1040s had you already started 
to move in that direction before your dad retired  

or is it just like we have to you know I have to 
make my dad happy I have to not shake the rock  

the boat too much until it's in your own hands or 
where along that where along that Journey did you  

decide the clients we have don't align with the 
dream I can't do you know two three thousand of  

these every single year in order to make this 
work how how did you come to that decision yeah  

well that that was overtime I think when I first 
started running the firm I don't think I really  

knew about the strategy of calling clients 
um I just I thought they just stayed there  

what I was doing it was I was actively going 
and getting my own clients and so the firm did  

pretty rapidly changed to be clients I had brought 
in that knew me um and and and and pro I don't  

know this is probably the first time I'm kind 
of saying this what that probably did is gave  

me Comfort that we got all this new Revenue it 
was coming in at different prices I was okay with  

letting go of some of the other clients um and now 
I would let my dad I would run that by him uh to  

make sure we did that but I think over time they 
just kind of dwindle away and then eventually the  

clients I brought in became more of what the firm 
was than what it was before I got there just over  

time and I don't know what that shift was but then 
I think I would feel more comfortable going I'm  

not doing a tax return for $100 I'm just not going 
to do that so hey uh you're going to need to pay  

twice you know double the price or something like 
that back then um so it just it just took time um  

to start swapping that client base a little bit 
okay we uh just like one more question about this  

and then we'll move move forward to what you've 
done since acquiring um did you ever butt heads  

with your dad on something where he really kind of 
second guessed or there was just uncertainty there  

of whether you were the right person to take over 
this firm um probably I bet my dad had thought  

that he didn't share with me so I'm betting he's 
probably like what is he doing but he was really  

trusting uh to let me try new things and I was 
trying a lot of stuff and I was I was wrecking  

some stuff there were some things I was not doing 
right but I did learn a lot through that process  

I learned a lot about how to lead how to sell uh 
how to bring in clients sometimes I did that right  

sometimes I didn't but my dad really never is like 
no way we are not doing that so I didn't have that  

contentious relationship and I know generationally 
sometimes that happens you know sometimes people  

have to deal uh with the fact that you know that 
older generation is just flat out not going to let  

the younger generation do what they're doing uh 
but that was not the case you know for my dad uh  

he completely just said do whatever um but man I 
bet there were times he was like what is he doing  

and he just didn't say that he he encouraged me 
and kind of let me do that and I would I would  

I would run those things by him I'm like Hey Dad 
I'm thinking about doing this I think it's really  

important what do you think if we go ahead and 
try this and he would always be on board so that's  

awesome that's a that's a great environment to 
cut your teeth on entrepreneurialism to get that  

kind of trust well some and that doesn't always 
happen I know and that's just not the story of  

everybody but it was for me thankfully so 
it gave me some freedom to really go mess  

some stuff up in a in a safe place really I mean 
you you've been instrumental for me that way in  

my career as well just to realize failure is not 
final yeah you I think early on you gave me this  

idea that we're just this is a laboratory and 
we're just we're just experimenting with things  

and some things fail and failure failure is part 
of a lab experiment of you learn from it and you  

move forward with it yeah it's not like the end 
of the world we're not you know it's not brain  

surgery or anything like that so no yeah yeah so 
um you've always seen yourself as an entrepreneur  

I know that there's a struggle I had this struggle 
early on that you're not a real entrepreneur  

unless you start a company right so but you've 
been acting being like an entrepreneur from day  

one walking into a company that you didn't start 
yeah and that's that's the idea behind the artist  

succession podcast is entrepreneurs it's a mindset 
it's not a yeah you know because you're 30 years  

in yeah you're 20 plus years into running Blumer 
CPA how it started no longer matters that's true  

it's it's how it's it's how it's continued to 
change over years right no that that's true I  

think yeah it's it's I think entrepreneurship is 
more a description of a person and how they act  

how they pursue value in new markets and you know 
how they take risks and learn from a lot of those  

risks so I think a lot of that is really important 
I don't think practically it has to be you're an  

entrepreneur if you started a company I don't I 
don't think that's true at all I think a lot of  

times that does happen right an entrepreneur they 
just can't help themselves they start companies  

um but that doesn't always have to be the case 
uh and you can still be an entrepreneur and Lead  

something somebody else started a long time ago 
heck yeah yeah and in our profession we certainly  

know people who used to be entrepreneurs used to 
be entrepreneurial but then just they fell out of  

practice and they totally you know 20 years later 
they're coasting in all the Innovative things they  

did way back at the beginning so heck yeah all 
right so you I asked on I ask all my guests what's  

the most important thing that you want to that you 
hope that I ask you and so you wrote down how can  

you stay the course long term when things get 
difficult in your business so it's this idea of  

longevity for you yeah so now let's fast forward 
a little bit it's 200920 you're by yourself at  

this point dad's out of the business you've now 
successfully completed your goal right now what  

yeah right so so why is this so important to 
you this idea of longevity stay the course  

yeah uh I you know it's probably that that's 
probably different for each person uh I think  

that happens to be one of my particular things um 
you know when I shared at deeper weekend I was 30  

years in and I said I'm gonna go another 30 years 
and I know that stuff freaks people out but I I I  

think I probably have not always been like that I 
probably haven't always necessarily believed that  

or thought that I think just I've done it so long 
now over time I see the the people I admire uh and  

when I look up to people um you know people like 
you you know be when I see um I mean you and I  

have walked this journey for uh well over a decade 
just kind of watching you uh stay committed to a  

path whatever it was um you know and that path 
that path changes for everybody uh it it goes  

It goes back and forth so um I think there came a 
point where I started to see people who commit to  

things longterm and they don't give up no matter 
what they're the ones who end up being on top in  

30 years in 40 years like when I'm the books of 
the people I'm reading it's like these people  

have been doing it for 40 and 50 years I'm like 
that's that's the people I'm looking up to um and  

so longevity started to become for me um that's 
what I want to do like I if I if I can help people  

now I can really help them 20 years from now and 
I think I share some of that you know even at the  

conference I'm like 30 years in I'm actually now 
able to really help people I know things to do  

to help them um think about what I can do after 
20 years like I can't imagine being able to say  

I'm 50 years into a career and I can help you so 
I don't think longevity is big for everybody some  

people want to retire I'm not a retire guy now it 
that doesn't mean my life can't won't have to look  

different as I get older I won't be able to do the 
same things I'm doing so that will have to change  

and tweak and I don't know what that'll look like 
uh but I still want to be providing value I just  

I'm just not a guy who will retire and then not 
work it's it's just not my deal it is the deal  

for some people it's just not mine so I think I'm 
that's a real personal thing to me it's not it's  

not a requirement now of course in Thal I push 
people to do it come on y'all do it with me um  

but you know that's part of my job you don't want 
to be lonely I want to be lonely 75 years old I'm  

going to be this creaky old cranky butthole 
guy um I want some other buttholes creaky old  

old people men and women with me hanging out 
doing it too so I don't know I think that's  

me this longevity thing is a personal thing okay 
has that affected how you think about succession  

planning or do you and your partners still have 
plans for if you can't make it that long how how  

does that impact it man that's a great question 
because if you had gone to your dad in 2003 and  

your dad was like well I've still got another 
40 years ahead of me so I don't know what you're  

talking about you're you're exactly right right um 
that's a good point if my dad had said that dude  

I'm going to have a 60-year career I would have 
been like well crap now what am I going to do um  

I I I would have figured something else out um but 
yeah definitely uh Julie and I talk about that as  

we're in our 50s kind of getting up into our our 
upper 50s we're having to start thinking about  

that you know we're getting to a stage where we 
can't we can't work as hard as we used to I mean  

at this stage you can still work pretty hard uh 
and we do have have to work pretty hard but yeah  

longevity it's like if I'm going to go into my 80s 
and 90s doing this which it ain't gonna work out  

the way I think it is I know that but I have 
that goal um I'm going to have to things are  

going to have to change and it does change your 
longevity because if you're going to retire at 65  

you know I've got 12 more years uh but if you're 
like uhuh I've got 30 more years you're going to  

have to work differently you're GNA and so yeah 
I'm going to have to continue to change and be  

creative which is something I love I love to do 
it's like cool what do I get to do in 10 years  

that I'm actually not doing now it's going to 
be creative and new and I'm looking forward to  

making that up that'll be awesome yeah and I think 
you and Julie will definitely will definitely make  

the changes necessary to get you to a point right 
because I think a lot of a lot of repairers in our  

profession they're like I'm going to work until I 
die but they keep doing the same thing year after  

year after year we're not going to do that and 
you've seen in 21 years of since joining this  

company how things have shifted you're no longer 
the one doing the 1040s you're no longer even the  

one doing the you know the partnership Returns the 
escort returns you you've built a team around you  

that allows you and Julie to do the consultative 
work that you enjoy doing um that that builds on  

your 30 years of experience in the profession so 
so at 80 it's not like how am I going to get all  

these tax returns done by April 15th kind of thing 
right so that's right yeah well and but that's a  

point the the longevity of transition means and 
and again I'm not an expert at this we're learn  

we're going to have to start learning about this 
but the longevity of a 60-year career is going to  

have to transition and change yeah I mean it has 
to because you're right um if you did you know if  

you work 80 hours a week doing tax returns when 
you're 55 you you're not gonna be able to do it  

when you're 85 if you still want to keep working 
then you have to have changed something and so  

we're going to change stuff yeah okay so let's 
talk about some changes you've been very open with  

the community um about the need for thriveal about 
halfway you know 10 15 years ago at this point now  

you've just taken over your dad's firm you have 
all these ideas you don't have a lot of people  

to bounce them off of you have a Blog that you're 
writing you yeah you're on Twitter a lot of people  

were on Twitter back then trying to figure out how 
CPAs use Twitter yeah so you send out a call you  

post a video and say there needs this there needs 
to be this community for like-minded CPAs where we  

can talk about this kind of stuff and we can share 
technically we're competitors but the market is so  

huge and there are so few of us who are doing 
it this way that we're going to grow together  

was that was a and I know you've talked about 
this that was a mental health necessity for you  

at that time too yeah it was yeah yeah and I it's 
funny I still have that video I have that video  

and man why anybody joined Thal I was looking at 
myself you know not recently just recently and it  

was like wow I look like a little baby uh that's 
crazy but yeah I I kind I just needed help yeah I  

was like please y'all we've got to be together and 
I don't know there was not a lot of planning or  

anything around it I just the internet was there 
it was really easy to do a webinar type thing and  

launch it and have people register you know we 
had platforms for the for doing that um you know  

I guess 15 years ago when we were planning those 
kind of things or not quite 15 um yeah it was for  

me I I was looking for a formal way for us to all 
be together um and I mean you you've been in Thal  

I don't know if longer than anybody now almost 
uh that's in Thal uh but it was it was it wasn't  

a paid Community it was like we just went to a 
LinkedIn forum and said let let's figure this  

out together and so that really it really was 
a um a Roots movement to just help each other  

um the the thing you know and when it became paid 
that was that was a hard thing thing to do because  

it you know it it hurt some people and I I get 
the perspective they they had but uh the things  

get big enough and so big that you can't devote 
time to them unless they can take some of your  

devotion away from your firm and that that started 
to happen to me so anyway a lot of those changes  

were hard on me hard to figure out um but we kept 
kept pushing through it somehow yeah a couple big  

choices like it became a paid Community it 
became for CPA firm owner specifically like  

vendors weren't in it uh you know wannabe sorry 
not wannabes yeah uh perspective or like Desiring  

to someday run a CPA firm that you know there 
was a there was a barrier to entry but you knew  

in order to give it your attention it had to you 
know like replace the income of the time the cost  

benefit that you're giving up over here in your 
firm so yeah and that that's how entrepreneurship  

works right it's like this thing's got to produce 
some level of income and then in return I'm going  

to give my devotion to that organization so that 
organization better be valuable to a market you're  

working in um and if it's not valuable then people 
aren't going to pay the price so pricing has a lot  

to do with a market recognizing that what you're 
trying to do is valuable um so there are a lot  

of lessons in that you know trying to price the 
community and going am I valuable not believing  

you're valuable you know fighting through all 
of that that mental trash that we all have to  

fight it's like who am I to put a price on this 
and man some people were harsh and mean about  

it uh privately thankfully um but I had to I had 
to wash through that and and then the other big  

uh it the other big shift in your company came a 
couple years later when you brought on a partner  

I would say those are probably the two biggest 
ones that I've witnessed is I can't do this by  

myself I need peers and now you're like I can't 
do this by myself I need a partner in The Firm  

talk about that uh just a little bit because a 
lot of entrepreneurs Founders were like I know  

how to run a firm and so we just step into doing 
that and then you get a couple years in there and  

you're like wow I don't know how to run every 
aspect of running a firm no yeah well yeah we  

probably we would Julie and I would counsel people 
to do partnership completely differently than we  

did it so that might be true for every partnership 
talk about that a little more so for people who  

don't have the context yeah okay well it's I had 
never had a partner it was my dad my dad's like  

man I'm cool do you know do whatever I had that 
great support from my dad that wasn't really my  

partner telling me to change things or challenging 
me to do stuff um actually what I need needed from  

my dad was what he gave me which was that freedom 
to try things in a safe space so he really was  

the place where I could Blossom and practice 
safely and I did fail a lot and so and there  

was no backlash from my dad from for any failure 
uh which is pretty cool so I felt that freedom and  

so probably he was that foundation of the place 
where I really let my creativity Blossom because  

I knew I was going to be safe um that's a that's 
a that's an amazing Place uh to be Julie had never  

been a partner or a business owner she had just 
finished homeschooling three of her kids and they  

they were close together in age so her and her 
husband figured out these three kids are going  

to be in college at the same time this is not 
good and so they're both you know that they were  

talking and said uh you got to get a job uh and so 
Julie is an accountant and we knew a friend me and  

my wife knew a friend that she knew that was her 
friend uh and we were looking for somebody to come  

into do operations and admin stuff kind of help us 
with some admin stuff not a not a partner at this  

point no no no way uh I had no clue I was just 
like well I'll tell you what was really happening  

some people may know this is I was I was I was 
neglecting the firm's books and stuff like that  

you know so we're getting like six months behind I 
think I think I I don't know shared this at deeper  

weekend sometimes Julie's like what is he saying 
on the stage good Lord uh but I sometimes I mouth  

off and and I need to be more careful but maybe 
I will when I'm 80 I'll no I'll get worse then  

probably that'll be really bad Barrett's like oh 
I'm staying I gotta see that no but no she came in  

but and she was she was needing a job and we were 
needing somebody to catch up the books of the firm  

before anybody found out it's like hey just keep 
it quiet but we're like way behind on our billing  

and our reconciliations I don't know what we're 
doing or if we're making money so if you can catch  

these things up that'd be helpful and and she was 
an accountant so that was not hard for her and  

she's she's brilliant person and so yeah she she 
had she had been out of working for 20s something  

years so she comes back to this world of complete 
technology cloud and she she's like oh this is  

they run firms now it's like well not everything 
we're doing is how firms uh operate so she got  

in there and just just kind of taught herself I 
didn't train her very well I didn't know how to  

train anybody um I we had I we had some employees 
I probably didn't train them well um but she came  

in started just you know looking through the 
financial statements uh trying to figure out  

uh how to train herself uh back then we were 
using U I think we had just started using build  

MH back then she was trying to figure out how 
to use that platform uh how to get the bank  

statements and I was like here's the bank 
login so I I don't know P pull them in the  

best you can so anyway she she did a great job 
of all that and my Jennifer my wife was doing  

admin I was um I think she may have been 
doing some marketing then I can't remember  

she did do more specific marketing later um but 
Julie just kept doing more and more and really  

just um it's like wow she can do anything um so 
anything I needed help with she could do um and  

then yeah and then just started getting her advice 
and help on even just kind of operational things  

like you know should we do it this way what 
do you think about this um so she was just one  

of those people that was kind of uh unusually 
able to do a lot of very uh specific things um  

and it and and about that time I started looking 
for a partner I was like I need a I need a CPA  

partner I flew around the country and actually 
met a few people that I knew and I was like uh  

I think I'm ready for a partner I I can't do I 
can't do what I'm doing now okay without help why  

a partner and why not just a highly paid employee 
that's able to review tax returns and do CPA great  

question great question Barrett um I don't think 
I knew to ask that and a lot of people ask me how  

did you know cuz that's a great you don't have 
to go to a part and we would probably suggest  

most people you don't necessarily default into 
partnership that is not that is not a default  

relationship you get into at all yep uh as you 
know you know this um so uh I I I think I just  

didn't know better uh because to me I was like 
I you know I need somebody to stay up and worry  

about this the way I stay up and worry about it I 
had already had Julie as an employee so I already  

knew she cared so cared deeply she she was always 
very already technically sound able to give advice  

able to help me uh she was not client facing them 
but a able to help me uh with anything help me and  

Jennifer with anything we needed uh in the firm 
and I think I I think I just didn't know better  

but I did say hey I need somebody to care about 
this the way I do not not just do a lot of things  

in smart ways but to really care and I thought 
that was a partner uh and so I was looking for a  

partner and then I went wait I think I think Julie 
is my partner she's my partner and it just dawned  

on me one day so you were at the time it sounds 
like looking for yourself out there another CPA  

who's entrepreneurial who's going to help me run 
this company who cares about problem this stuff  

and you locked into yeah an employee who's got 
complimentary skills right because I think that  

that's why Partnerships you would advise against 
them is because so many people look for themselves  

you're right we can both go out and close deals 
we can double the size of the firm we can both  

do the same you're you're exactly right I that's 
what I didn't know but I found somebody that was  

a compliment to me and in many ways opposite from 
me you know uh you you know sometimes I'll try to  

beg her to speak in front of deeper weekend which 
people want her to do and she's like bro that is  

not my stage man I am fine where I'm at there 
are a lot of integrators in that off audience  

that want to hear from an integrator that's right 
they're like hey Jason um we hear you a lot we get  

enough of the Visionary show us how it actually 
works yeah and so you know the first time I told  

her I'm like Julie if you speak they are going 
to they're really going to get a lot of value  

it's just a different perspective and she did 
speak you know that first the first year I can't  

remember and people were like yeah I got some more 
questions for Julie um and and I knew it would be  

valuable but yeah I I didn't know how to do that 
well I didn't know how to search for a partner um  

so she was a complete compliment and and in many 
ways like I said the opposite and that's that's  

when you get I think that's when you become a 
Powerhouse um that's actually when Julie says  

um it's cool when you can have two people join 
and they become exponential instead of two people  

that join that just double their ability right so 
and so and I think that's true Julie and I could  

exponentially build a very large organization and 
not just double because it wasn't her doing tax  

returns me doing tax returns we took on pretty 
early that Visionary integrator role uh really  

within the first year we we we leaned really hard 
into those roles uh and and that's when we learned  

hey this we learned how this is supposed to work 
which was really cool okay yeah I mean I think  

that's that's the problem with Partnerships is you 
end up having multiple firms under the same roof  

because everybody's duplicating the same efforts 
and exactly you end up having you know I like  

this kind of client I like this kind of client 
we'll figure out a way to to serve them all yeah  

and and we know organizations don't really work 
don't ones that grow large don't really work  

that way they have to be really centered in on 
foundational values core values a purpose that  

organization has to have a purpose you know all 
the leadership have to be on the same page about  

the purpose of this organization and it's its 
existence in the marketplace and that's what the  

complimentary partnership can give you is a single 
combined Powerhouse organization is not two or  

three dispair at foms or kingdoms uh and you you 
know all this you've been in the profession long  

enough and are in Partnership and so you can see 
the power of combining than doing your own thing  

so what advice would you give to somebody who's 
been their first year their second year maybe and  

they are what caution would you give them about 
partnering if they feel overwhelmed and then what  

encouragement would you give them to maybe to the 
other side uh who feel like they have to do it all  

themselves because I've been in both situations at 
one time partnership was the furthest thing from  

my mind because I saw it as just like doubling 
myself yeah and giving up control for the for  

the right to do that totally um so what encourage 
I guess what caution would you give to somebody  

who's immediately like I want to do this but I 
have to have a partner um good let's start with  

that one yeah well I I think uh anybody starting 
a partnership should have an immediate caution  

so that's the first thing you should you should 
be cautious about it um practically we would say  

and and again I didn't know to do this right 
but it's it it had happened that I had worked  

with Julie for two or three years I three years 
I think something like that um yeah three years  

so I knew her I knew how she worked I knew I knew 
how deeply she actually already cared about Thal  

and Blumer she she was in true rued by them and 
already cared so um so the caution is that you  

you have to really know somebody and so you 
need to go slow so um you know think things  

like buying a firm and then the people come in 
are automatically Partners is pretty dangerous  

if you just don't know them you have to know 
people and that's going to look different so  

I can't put a number on it it's got to be three 
years or it's got to be two it's going to be  

different for different people um because as you 
get in a real relationship with people you know  

this you you learn more about them as you you go 
into harder places good places you go oh I didn't  

know that was a side of you um is that you know I 
didn't know that was part of the deal you want to  

really try to hit all of those bumpy places and 
all of the great places uh so you can really know  

what you're doing and what you're dealing with um 
and I think uh Julie and I didn't fully know but  

we had worked together so the caution is going 
too fast I think is super dangerous super super  

bad um because breaking up a partnership is just 
heartbreaking you know that's heart-wrenching I'm  

sure you've seen it we've seen it it's just it's 
just really tough emotionally uh on people uh to  

see that happen but I think uh they're also uh 
for the good side of the partnership I think it  

also the right partner if you do that at the 
right time can take you to place is that you  

just can't go on your own so there is a time when 
partnership lets you do things you cannot do by  

yourself and that's super cool it's super cool 
to know that person that's partnering with you  

you can't do it without them um and so it gives 
you you know an amazing respect to go um actually  

what I want to do has to start becoming a little 
bit subservient to what we want to do together and  

that's hard for everybody to go that's not what I 
want to do but as a partnership it has to be what  

are we trying to do together and if you're in 
the partnership with the right person that is  

you took time you're okay giving up and going you 
know what I don't want to do the thing I want to  

do if that gets in the way of what we're going to 
do together which is also awesome then I'm going  

to give up a little bit of this and that's when 
that's when you can really be great I think so  

there's a caution and an encouragement that there 
is a there's a time when you just can't go far  

enough without actually getting a partner I think 
interesting yeah I know you've changed my mind  

on this over the years watching your journey from 
the semi outside uh looking in but it's this idea  

that creativity needs constraint and you've said 
I am so much more free now that there is a fence  

around this yard of what I can go explore versus 
the things that are just off the table Yeah Yeah  

and and I guess you know and probably some people 
may not always perceive that right but Julie is  

extremely creative and she's even changed more 
about um in her role as an integrator there's  

a lot of vision to a larger organization the 
Visionary part of the integrator there's a lot to  

Envision what this what team we need and so Julie 
sometimes has pushed me to take risks sometimes  

that that I'm fearful to take um so I think you 
know probably a lot of times people perceive her  

perceive maybe an integrator as going let me let 
me rope off the playground you get to play in um  

when sometimes she's like you see this path I've 
actually paved a road for you now hit the gas but  

go that way I know you and I know what you're 
trying to do I I'm Paving the road don't go in  

the wilderness anymore you keep going over there 
and bumping and you keep destroying the car so  

not giving us um that's not giving us the value 
you want so she's like this is the road I've  

cut down all the trees for you now hit the gas 
and then and then so it's it's really ultimate  

freedom is really what it is now you know I didn't 
think it was that at first I was like stop Hing  

me in man and I we had some we had some some some 
hot words about that uh but turns out I was wrong  

yeah I guess the analogy of the fenced in yard 
kind of leaves the impression of this is the  

size of the yard for forever and once I'm done 
exploring the yard there's nothing else that I  

get to do but you're saying like she's saying no 
we're gonna explore a yard but it's going to be  

in this direction and there's a bigger yard over 
there I need your vision your drive yeah plow us  

forward that direction that's right yeah and and 
in a sense um it you know as an integrator knows  

me and so I I do much bigger things because of 
the road that she paves and so she kind of pushes  

me like because what she's doing is she's really 
operationally and technically thinking about the  

risks too it's like do we have the team to do 
that do we have the infrastructure the software  

and when or the money and when she believes we 
do man she'll want to take risks that'll make  

me nervous um but but but I've come to trust that 
I'm like she knows the bank account so she knows  

the people you were making risks with no financial 
statements the books weren't recil like right see  

if this works out I yeah well I haven't reconciled 
my accounting so I don't know if we have cash but  

you know what I'm gonna pull I'm gonna see what 
happens and that turns out to not work uh a lot  

of times so that can get you in a lot of trouble 
uh but when Julie starts technically uh pouring  

down a foundation in a company and you start to 
really know what you can do do uh that's when  

she's like uh she wants a bigger playground bigger 
bigger bigger uh but but a great integrator only  

wants what the Visionary is trying to achieve and 
when you talk to a real integrator and Julie and  

I coach uh Visionaries and integrators um and 
we can always tell we can spot integrators now  

we know them and you'll hear them they always 
say I'm trying to figure out what they want and  

I know I'm successful when they're pulling the 
vision that is a real common phrase integrators  

say they're not trained to say it they just do it 
automatically they know they're in this place and  

they're like if I'm going to get in uh the the 
side seat of that Visionary we're going to go  

some crazy places and that's that's been Julie's 
uh ultimate desire which is what's your vision  

it's going to happen now maybe not yet maybe not 
that fast maybe not that direction but the vision  

going to happen let's see how to how to do it so 
that's really what has allowed me to be have any  

form of success oh that's awesome well Jason I 
appreciate your time we could talk for a whole  

another episode I know because we have over the 
years and you've got 30 years in your career  

ahead of you we'll have we'll have more times 
to dig into this stuff for sure we will this is  

exciting thank you for having me par so cool yeah 
I appreciate it uh so I want to end my show I've  

got a lightning round of questions that I want to 
ask my guests um all right so just one one to two  

sentences no embellishment no backstory nothing 
like that okay we don't have time for that so so  

lightning round uh coffee or tea coffee always 
beans ground freshly ground beans freshly ground  

I don't I don't want already pre ground coffee 
no okay uh pie or cake cake okay interesting  

yeah uh what is a common belief that you see 
among entrepreneurs that you would challenge  

yeah that I want to be an entrepreneur to to have 
my freedom uh Freedom can be uh very Elusive and  

it's not exactly what it is freedom but it's not 
what you thought good awesome uh your favorite  

holiday Christmas time Christmas yeah awesome 
okay are you a morning person or a night person  

um I work a good bit so I'm probably both but 
I would label myself morning person okay all  

right um if you could pick one thing that your 
successor and not having a successor in your firm  

necessarily but just somebody who's following in 
your footsteps would remember you for what would  

that be whoa Barrett like one sentence come on 
that's like a massive question that's just this  

is for the next podcast episode yeah so no I would 
I would want a successor to remember me as having  

uh cared about people enough that those people's 
lives were changed they were encouraged enough to  

that they were moved forward more because they 
were in a relationship with me I would want the  

successor going he did that for me and and I saw 
him do that for other people sometimes at his  

own cost uh that's what I would want them to know 
that I I was committed to and and wanted awesome  

uh I know you always have sources of creativity 
where are you finding creativity right right now  

yeah well I always have to have a lot of books 
so I'm always reading uh reading a bunch of  

books um uh Mastery by Robert Green unreasonable 
Hospitality by Will G Gadera however you say his  

last name uh so books um trying new things I'm 
always being challenged uh in my career uh so  

um coaching you know those kind of things we're 
always with a we're always with entrepreneurs  

probably three or four times a week we're in some 
kind of uh coaching session Consulting with people  

trying to build businesses through value and so I 
gain I gain a lot of insights and creativity from  

other people other business owners awesome so uh 
what's one thing coming up uh not for thriveal  

because I don't want you to spoil it for me but 
one thing coming up in the next year within Blumer  

CPAs that's got you really excited yeah to try 
out well um Pro probably a couple things so we're  

we're kind of we're looking at um starting to 
make some small Acquisitions so we're interested  

that in The Firm we did one of those last year 
a solopreneur firm um so we're interested in a  

little bit of expansion that way uh and some a lot 
of people in our our industry do that regularly  

you know where you can learn a lot about that 
and I'm interested in a little bit of expansion  

that way um I do one thing I do get to go speak in 
Brazil which is going to be pretty cool uh so I'm  

going to go speak to a large accounting conference 
down in Brazil uh in P it's in they're in  

Portuguese they talk in Portuguese so I'm they're 
I think they're going to interpret me uh when I'm  

doing the keynote so that's pretty creative I love 
to travel and and be put in positions where I can  

learn new things so I'm looking forward to that 
that's awesome all right uh where can people find  

out more about more about you and hear more of 
your thoughts yeah so if you hit Blumer cpa.com  

or thriveal doc which is t h r i v l.com uh and 
then hit our YouTube channels that's where a lot  

of my content is our podcasts are uh so we put 
a good bit of content out on our YouTube channel  

so that's it awesome thank you very much Jason 
I appreciate you being on the artistic session  

cool thanks Barrett for having me it it was a it 
was a treat being with you thank you sir [Music]