The Art of Succession

welcome to the Art of Succession podcast

with Barrett Young join us as we explore

the strategies stories and insights that

shape the journey of leadership

transitions and business success no

matter where you find yourself along the

journey this is the podcast where you'll

find the tools to make it happen i had a

good uh purchase agreement where it was

tied to performance and the company did

not perform it it was really in '

0708 that the consulting in the IBM

business just really slid off the cliff

we become the IT department for in West

Michigan over a 100 small businesses or

we help the IT department my name is

Barrett Young and this is the Art of

Succession podcast my guest today is

Mike Ritzma CEO and principal of I3

Business Solutions in Grand Rapids

Michigan mike bought his company in 2001

and has made a series of acquisitions

along the way that he's going to share

with us today mike welcome to the art of

succession glad to be here Barrett

looking forward to the conversation and

telling some stories i'm looking forward

to those stories so I want to lead off

with the question what what interests

you most about sharing your experience

for the benefit of my listeners here on

the artist succession you know kind of

my phrase nowadays is at my age and

could I give back in some way could I

help somebody out and uh in my

experience and one of my if we get to it

we'll talk about it but find a mentor

find a peer group and if I could help

somebody out in any way through my

journey and stories I think that would

be very fulfilling for me just a little

bit of background leading up to the

acquisition of that company what's your

what's your background

so ironically I went to college i

dropped out after a year and a half and

uh it's like enough of this i'm ready to

get to work and I ended up selling food

to restaurants for seven years and did

well rose to the top and I was in a peer

group what peer group a church

fellowship group with an IBM employee

who said "Have you ever thought about

selling computers?" And I said "Yeah

absolutely." And next thing you know I

was interviewing at an IBM business

partner and working as a sales guy in

the computer industry for IBM and I had

a good run through the 90s got a little

bit cocky talked to some guys with an

IBM business partner uh firm hey if

you're ever thinking about selling a

mainframe firm you ever thinking about

selling I'm interested and and that's

how I ended up buying 21st century

computer specialists

okay and this was 2001 that you

purchased that okay so what do you mean

by by got a little cocky explain that a

little bit you know the '9s for

technology and IBM and and today IBM

this little computer company but back

then big blue uh was a good run i mean

they had some products that were selling

we had a system of selling it and uh you

know I was good at selling so uh I saw

how the business partner firm I was

working for was run like I can do that

and uh you know was generally successful

and had paid off my house and and so

then uh up right at the turn of the

millennium I ran you know bought this

company right after the the year 2000

okay so just explain to me the idea of

selling computers and then having a

business partner you would sell the

computers and then they would service

them is that the relationship that was

here i mean uh IBM in the '90s decided

we're going to use business partners

much like Microsoft right uh we're going

to use business partners to grow our

business and help us sell stuff all over

the world and so IBM did the same thing

they found business partners to do the

programming the implementation the setup

of the computers the software and uh

that's what we did so that business

partner firm that company uh grew and

was successful and I'm like I can I can

do that

okay um Okay so talk me through that and

that conversation were they retiring

like what brought about the the

acquisition in 2001 so I think perhaps

in accounting and perhaps in a lot of

businesses engineering

architecture I believe there's two

different types of people right i'm a

I'm a sales type i'm an entrepreneur i'm

a business person i'm a let's go guy we

can do this let's go there and then

you've got the more maybe ponderous

people who are more technical we're

going to plan this thing this service

this execution but they're not the

gregarious let's go types maybe so I I

was that type and uh so the firm that I

bought uh was a bunch of really good

technical people and but as we

approached the year 2000 technology was

changing hardware was getting less

expensive the industry was changing and

they were getting older right they were

mainframe people and and I bought the

company in 2001 in January of 2001

i mortgaged my house had a home equity

loan had a line of credit at the

business and uh had a rough year in 2001

yeah I I imagine i mean 90s home equity

was just skyrocketing so it was a

bottomless pit that you could always tap

into and then

2001 home equity or just the home bubble

and the the

the internet bubble all at the same time

has got to be damaging for that exactly

so so I'll just I'll tell the rest of

that story uh you know the optimistic

sales guy who can just bang down doors

and find business went over nine months

i mean it was so bad that um I would

come in I'll never forget the sales

meeting when I had a huge forecast

multiple millions of dollars and I

finally went in a sales meeting and said

"How many of these opportunities do we

have a quote on the table?" And they

said

"None." We're not taking any orders if

we're not putting quotes on the table

and I just flailed and called and I

would come into the office at 7:00 a.m

by 9:00 a.m i was done i didn't know who

to call i I'd done all the admin work I

could do i was saved by some guys that I

ran with at noon every noon I mean my my

dopamine and and s uh what is it

serotonin serotonin was just sliding off

a cliff and uh you know it was a rough

summer of 2001 and I was uh mentally and

physically depressed my wife made me go

to the doctor uh they put me on

medication and that sent me higher than

a kite my wife could be barely stand me

but it got me through the summer and uh

uh again fully into the home equity

fully into the line of credit hadn't

taken a paycheck in three months uh

September hits and I'm like it's over

and you know what happened Barrett on

September 11 how long had this business

been been around when you when you

purchased it in 201 guys were they from

the Okay so mid mid

80sish did they just Well it would have

been 10 Yeah 10 plus years

okay did they just walk was there no

like continuity there were they come up

come on as employees for a little bit to

help transition it to you there were

three partners there two of them I let

go or two of them moved on we bought

them out and then one of them sta stayed

jim Seymour a hero who uh did not take a

paycheck for 3 months straight along

with me god bless him just a great guy

uh but I mean it was the tech recession

of 2001 like you said you know back then

we had laid fiber all over America the

dotcom bust of 2001 is when we laid

fiber across the Atlantic Ocean and

companies went bankrupt i mean the whole

thing stocks were flying

uh and it just totally collapsed

yeah i was like leading up to that

anything technology hinting at was easy

investment easy money flying all over

the place and I mean managed services

you're not you're still required you're

still necessary in business operations

at that point but I'm I'm sure just your

customers were also hurting and and you

know losing their businesses too is that

is that a fair assessment here yeah

absolutely and really the pivot to

managed services came we call it the

pivot today back then I'm like we got to

figure out how to make money uh but the

uh that pivot came in

070809 so uh you know September 11 I'm

driving down the road 44th Street in

Grand Rapids half mile from my mom's

house i pulled in sat on the couch

watched the Twin Towers go down i'm like

it's over the company's bankrupt the

nation's economy's grinding to grinding

to a halt uh you know I need there will

be no business in the future that yeah

it's just it's all it's all over from

this moment forward everything's changed

so and we were there at that time we

were selling IBM hardware and doing

consulting and programming and it had

grown to a halt in that recession so uh

um it bought in October we got two

orders from two big billiondoll

organizations and it saved the company

and turned it around and we started to

go again we started to come out of the

recession and uh we found our way home

okay a well I mean obviously that's

that's what brings you here but that's

great to hear that it was so soon just

that reassurance a month after something

like this that two big deals I mean a

deal can make or break an entrepreneur's

psyche when you need it right so so

you're on you're on medication you're in

this brand new company you haven't even

been there a year yet you've got one of

the three partners working alongside of

you How do you and and did you how did

you buy the company did you say you had

investors as well yeah we had four

investors and uh I was the biggest

investor and friends and family right

borrowed the money had a good uh

purchase agreement where it was tied to

performance and the company did not

perform it and there was other stuff i

mean credit cards that I hadn't seen for

6 months the office manager was throwing

them away there were so many things that

were imperfect in the discovery in the

due diligence uh that luckily I clawed

it all back and so the previous owners

did not get a lot of money uh and that

helped but yeah we had four partners or

four investors and I had one partner

working in the business with me okay

what kind of conversations after that

you had those two big contracts come in

in

October what kind of conversations were

you and the partner having or were you

just having you know in your own head to

we need to we need to fix something here

we need to because you hadn't been

having sales leading up to 911 right so

how how are you entering 2002 what's

what are you fixing here to make it Yeah

again we've got you know two sales types

right my partner was a sales type and I

was a sales type and we're out there

okay yeah we're out there bringing it in

and as I think as the uh recession

started to turn we started finding more

business and and turned it on we also

had a a a guy in the office that had had

this little network business and he was

just working out of our office and he

had a falling out and threw in with us

so we had a little bit of this Microsoft

Server stuff

happening in the 90s we would say

uh don't trust your company to Microsoft

Server NT uh trust your company to a

real computer and IBM AS400 or or 6000

so but we had this little thing

happening in networks and so on it's

like ah yeah that's that that's the toy

stuff we're selling the real stuff

and so this was an employee that you had

in the business that had something on

the side or it was just a new department

that he was spinning up or it was an

acquaintance who uh had another company

in business and he just needed some

office space paid us some money he's

running his company out of there out of

our office and then one day his partner

went flaky and he's like I want to throw

in with you and I said "Sure you work

for me now we'll pay you you do that

business." Okay did you acquire the

business or you just said "Come under us

with the funding and the cash flow and

the security and build it here instead?"

Just move it over here we go okay what's

that start to look like i mean

how you're acting it fill me in here

because it's all technology to me but

these are two very different approaches

it sounds like from what you're sharing

here so it's so fascinating the journey

i mean I'll give you a high level that

uh again for young listeners back in the

'9s IBM was the computer company yeah

nobody ever got fired by recommending

IBM right exactly and it was blue and we

were loyal and I always wanted to work

for IBM and I did take a job with IBM in

1997 because it was my lifetime goal in

fact in 1990 I told you I dropped out of

college i was on the 15-year program i

say to anybody listening here is you

know complete your education uh it took

me 15 years i went back to college when

I got the job at the computer company at

at at the business partner and took a a

computer class and uh a business class

and went I'm an idiot i'm clueless

and uh then I kept going and finished my

bachelor's degree in economics business

and economics over a after 15 years and

with kids and going to night classes and

so on uh but but you know so I was loyal

I was blue I wanted to work for the

great computer company accomplished that

goal in 97 and then bought the company

so then from that point um in uh our

next acquisition we tried to buy a

one-man band in 2005 that's a separate

sales story we did we bought a one-man

band it was basically a signing B bonus

he came with accounts uh and then in

COVID era I bought a five employee

company and then just a year ago we

bought a a pretty substantial partner

with 20 employees here so kind of I'm a

sales type organic growth works and hey

let's acquire in different ways so IBM

was sell hardware do

consulting

that not in the tech recession of 2001

Barrett but in the great recession of '

0708 is when the consulting and the

applications Michigan with 18%

unemployment two automotive

manufacturers GM and Chrysler went

bankrupt were bailed out by the

government

uh that it was really in '

0708 that the consulting in the IBM

business just really slid off the cliff

okay had you already brought on the the

Microsoft uh associate at that point and

started to shift a little bit yeah so

this thing's over here again this this

Microsoft which if you go back 20 years

it was really uh you know Word Excel and

email productivity apps give me a break

we run the business on IBM ERP software

and then you got these networks with

files in them and Word and email give me

a break well that's kind of flipped in

the last 25 years huh

talk to me about how you encourage him

to build this other division at what

point did employees start shifting like

what's that look like when he's

reporting to you and you guys are

exploring something a little bit

different here yeah so

um we merged the two companies in 2004

so bought 21st Century in

2001 had another IBM business partner

firm very similar to us a little smaller

we decided to put the two companies

together we had four partners okay and

uh the still one of the original ones of

the three was still around at this point

okay four partners and as we headed into

0708 the great recession I didn't know

what was happening but certainly

business was slowing

down and uh I had already bought out we

had already bought out one partner who

we had a falling out with and the second

partner I think around 07 said "This

thing is struggling i'm out of here."

And when we run the value of the company

it was so low that I rounded up and said

"Would would you take this?" And he's

like "Yeah fine." And uh his shares

moved over so we were down to two

partners uh Kathy and me and as we

headed into the Great Recession and IBM

Hardware was not selling consulting we

had a consultant at a local company was

there for 10 years they sent them

home and uh so we were laying people off

in '

0708 and we looked at this networking

division and this is when managed

services started Barrett this is when uh

a lot of technology companies looked at

the market the way I did and what I

learned from peers is my goodness Snap

Fitness Planet Fitness Comcast

uh they're all we're paying them all

monthly the cell phone I pay monthly i

should try and figure out how to run a

business where we get paid monthly

rather than on a project basis or

selling big hardware every two to three

months and we started doing the

recurring revenue thing yeah just a

brief two to three sentences on what

managed service provider means in your

industry yeah basically means that we

become the IT department for in West

Michigan over a hundred small businesses

or we help the IT department so we

become the help

desk call we keep everything running

patched secure productive and if there's

a problem pick up the phone we jump on

your computer we fix it and then

secondly we deliver cyber security

protection let's make sure nothing bad

happens gotcha so project to recurring

revenue was the project did the project

revenue have any kind of re repeat

customer repeat business what did that

sales cycle look like uh prior to the

shift to MSP model i think it I think

it's the reality of uh you know it's

something I understand now that when you

have loyal customers the projects show

up regularly right two or three times a

year okay and the hardware is purchased

every 3 to 5 years so you know depends

on your definition of recurring revenue

but certainly when somebody's paying

sending you money every month to be like

an employee Right you're the IT

department you're the whole department

you're like an IT employee sitting there

that's a different type of model yeah

okay

so big server purchases and things like

that would be every every couple years

um for these for these customers but now

you've got a model where you're shifting

to and it's not you know the

sales it's not a fist pump price it's

not like yes we did it we close this

huge deal it's a small trickle effect

but it's monthly uh by by being able to

provide that for them um I mean that's

certainly I've seen your your industry

move that direction accounting is about

10 years behind on that you were

starting to see that that kind of

recurring model uh how who are you

listening to how who I mean are do you

have peer groups that you're talking to

to to learn this kind of stuff or was it

all just entrepreneurial exploration

yeah I think that'd be advice number one

or two or three that I'd give to anybody

listening and that is I think I

mentioned it earlier you know find a

mentor find a peer group and I say for

individual uh people young people or

anybody uh find a mentor and you know I

my my son's in the petroleum industry

and a friend of mine's in the industry

too he's like I feel like I'm calling

Doug too often i'm like you I mean Doug

loves it when he Doug probably it's so

exciting can you give me some advice if

you know somebody calls me and says "Hey

I'd like to sit down i ask you some

questions maybe I could learn something

from you." Heck yes this is what I do

this for i will teach you great young

person uh so find a mentor and then I

always say you don't have will you be my

v mentor no you sit down and ask

questions and and thank them for

learning can I call you back in three

four months and and could we connect

again absolutely if you want to learn

from me let's do that and it's the same

thing with a peer group i say to any

business owner find a peer group the

peer group can be local with different

businesses CEO roundt type groups so

valuable and I'm in one and it's the

family business alliance in West

Michigan and there's about eight

business owners that we get in a room

and we can talk about business owner

stuff but I'm also in a technology peer

group for 15 years now and that answers

your question flying around the country

four times a year sitting around a table

with technology companies just like mine

and talking about building our business

looking at benchmarks on performance to

improve the performance of the business

uh that is so valuable i recommend that

to any business owner find a peer group

yeah that's awesome four times a year

that's that's a significant time

commitment much less any kind of

investment in dues and membership and

anything like that so um for someone

looking for a mentor I know in

succession planning

especially you're you're possibly buying

the business from the person that has

been your mentor up until now and I know

when you when you go to somebody and

you're like I need a mentor oftentimes

there's this perception of they're going

to say well that's not the way things

are done or they're going to say you

know from their experience in the field

say "No you need to do it this way and

they're going to guide you into there."

How would you go about finding a mentor

that is still going to encourage you to

do things different especially you know

external so they won't just say "Well

these customers that we deal with they

won't accept that kind of thing." What

would be your recommendation there for

finding a mentor like that oh that's a

good question i'm I'm I don't have a

good answer to that i think LinkedIn you

know for young people today uh or for

people today LinkedIn could be an answer

to find a successful person in the

industry certainly networking and again

we're back to you know characteristics

or personality i'm a networker i'm out

there i'm gregarious for somebody that's

not gregarious or out there uh it's

going to be a little harder um so uh

definitely you know we've had a number

of marketing specialists come through

here and there's the American Marketing

Association group in West Michigan and

I've gone to these events they're great

if you're in marketing you look for that

that uh affinity group that you can join

and and you meet people so those I think

those groups exist in you know all large

cities so it's finding groups like that

it could be the chamber there's lots of

places to find uh people that you could

learn from yeah so just keep testing and

keep looking for that right fit and I

know in my experience I haven't had a

mentor but I've had various mentors i've

had number of mentors and it's like I go

to this person for accounting mentorship

i go to this person for entrepreneurial

mentorship i go to this person for

spiritual mentorship it's like I pick

and choose who I who I allow to speak

into my life at various times back to

your story though with the MSP thing in

2007208 you're building something that

is new across the industry so how do you

find a mentor when it's like you're on

the leading edge of this new thing that

that that's moving in that direction

yeah and I think technology for moves

faster than some industries let's say so

um you know retail has changed over 20

years right and it's going online and

whole chains are closing and so on but

some say technology changes every 6

months and it is always changing but it

was a peer group I mean I'm reading the

industry rags uh I would say 20 15 years

ago yeah I'm reading online forums and

tracking uh the websites for the

industry and seeing the trend

But the peer group was the biggest

impact of uh improving the company and

seeing where the uh industry is going

certainly conferences also uh our vendor

for ERP our accounting vendor specialist

software PSA professional services

automation

uh has a great conference and a great

peer group so all these affinity groups

I'm tracking and listening and webinars

and everything else and reading the tea

leaves right that's what we do as

entrepreneurs we're trying to understand

where the business is and where is it

going and what do we have to invest in

okay so with a peer group when you're

all kind of going in this same direction

it's like well I'm trying this over here

and I'm encountering this and they're

like well we tried this and we're

encountering this and so you guys are

all kind of moving at the same pace

together

forward mentoring each other on just

slight tweaks and things that you can as

you're as you're discovering this it's

the g great paradox of business and by

the way I I my journey in life is from

either or uh you know right wrong to

both end And so the great paradox and

paradoxes right is oh you want to be

different than everybody else build a

business that that's different than

everybody else uh don't follow the trend

okay good point and well we've had a

pretty good run f following the trend of

where the industry is going rather than

saying "Ah they're crazy out there."

Yeah you want to be different but not so

different that there's no market for it

so you you always want to be looking for

what are those what are those other one

two three other companies that are

racing alongside us uh that we can be

one of the big ones in that group so

okay awesome so you've had a couple

other acquisitions since then and it

sounds like you know the plans for those

have just been acquiring smaller

competitors smaller companies key

personnel different things like that

just expanding market share is that that

correct did all kind of you had a

direction and it was just acquisitions

in the same direction yeah you know I

don't like I said I'm going to well I

think you know part of the journey of

life is you what was it Socrates who

said know thyself so I I I'm I'm at a

point and I've spent my lifetime trying

to understand myself and and I know that

I'm driven by the challenge you what

gets me up in the morning as an

entrepreneur a business person the

challenge and so selling big deals right

hardware and the celebration around that

give me some of that and and actually I

got in trouble with my company because

when we really hit stride in recurring

revenue I said I got in front of a

company and I said this business is

boring and

predictable but they told me not don't

ever say that again but to me oh darn we

can we know what to expect tomorrow that

sounds like a terrible situation

it was

boring i need the adrenaline rush of the

big kill yeah so so that I enjoy that so

for me and know thyself and I I

understand not every entrepreneur is

like that uh but uh that's the that's

the thing for me is the challenge so the

organic growth of going out and new

getting new accounts i love that tell

you a sales story for people out there

and I am a sales guy i've been in sales

my whole life and and I know how to sell

and I ended up at Panera Bread with a

business broker his name's Max and I can

still picture him today because he sits

down he looks at me he says "Sales is so

easy." I said "Wait what do you mean by

that?" "Well you go to LinkedIn it gives

you all the answers you need." I'm like

"Really?" And uh yeah man i went out

there and profiled people that might buy

a business and you know dial the phone

send them an email and I'm sitting here

with you i'm like "You're right." Oh

dang it did work it did work and uh that

was a revelation to me i think that's an

evolution of sales and business uh that

uh I could do a better job with people

listening might uh have that nailed uh

but it was fascinating is is that just

using the technology the big data all

that all the demographics available to

prequalify your leads a little bit

better yeah and I was just looking at

Microsoft pie chart uh on where their

business comes from and uh cloud and

Microsoft 365 a huge part windows

desktop and server a huge part and

LinkedIn is like 7% of their total

business it's bigger than their dynamics

so LinkedIn you can pay for sales

navigator and that will give you a very

tight profile of who you're looking for

it's not cheap uh but clearly that's

what he used and for salespeople out

there I mean we know how to get new

business it's email send

postcards network make phone calls get

appointments and he said I can find you

a business to buy um you hand me $3,000

and I will do a profile on who you're

targeting i'll find 120 companies i will

email them and call them and we will get

down to five to eight you will talk to

three or four of them and you will buy a

business i'm like that sounds like what

I do and so I handed him the money and

and that's when we found the one man

band

okay wow and we got some customers we

got a great tech and really it was just

uh kind of a a signing bonus for the guy

okay and then you've done another one

since then i think you said in the past

year or two yeah i mean I think that the

the uh five employee company that was

doing a million dollars a year came to

us in the co era and I had met with this

guy uh 10 years prior i had written a

letter of intent he was in his mid60s he

his wife wanted him to retire and go to

their condo in Florida he couldn't do it

i mean when it was time to sign he said

I can't do it but at the end of 2020 co

he called me up he said "Mike do you

still want to buy you my business?" And

I said he said "Well actually I'll give

you the business." And uh first week of

December my son and I drove across the

state uh we spent one day doing due

diligence and we came back presented it

to the team three weeks later we bought

the business i took off for Florida for

the uh uh new year and came back and we

had five more employees and another

million dollars in revenue

and that to me that's an example of uh

you know I organically selling but also

networking and being in a position to

buy a business and and it was really

fulfilling because we kept five

employees employed and in healthcare

gave them continuity uh it it really

worked well for everybody to to help the

owner transition at age

78 transition in a way that he wanted to

so it really worked out for everybody

okay is that how you've seen your your

role as sales shift

from you know very early one of the few

employees in a business to now president

of this this large regional MSP is

you're no longer out there buying the

individual customers i would assume you

have a sales department you have a

marketing team things like that but now

you're looking for the different types

of deals like this large $1 million

revenue acquisition uh is is that this

keeping you from getting bored that kind

of approach to it yeah and you know I

think it's the natural evolution of uh

you know a business

owner

is I think it's difficult sometimes to

recognize how one's responsibility

changes

i I can remember when I was at the food

company and the owner who was my age you

know 40 years ago he'd walk in the door

and everybody's like "Be cool the

owner's here." And uh I can't comprehend

people walking in here and being cool

you know Mike's here but I have to

accept that role and say "How do I fit

into the community in a way that

benefits the company in a different

way?" And that's that I think for some

of us might be a new revelation

yeah how have you I mean what kind of

work have you had to do obviously

probably personally and with your peer

groups and stuff to make that shift

because I know that's one of the biggest

complaints about business owners who

don't let go is they're still in the

weeds they're still micromanaging

everything they still want to be the

person to have all those relationships

rather than delegate and trust how how's

that mental game shifted for you well I

think again that's a benefit of the peer

group is people going through that

journey and there's a lot of PE buying

firms in our industry uh private equity

so we see people doing that and uh so

sharing those stories hearing the

stories seeing the reality of what's

happening to people and their businesses

and their decisions

uh talking to him on the phone driving

down the uh road all of that informs uh

this evolution and then

uh you know I don't think there's a

perfect answer i think the personal

journey of letting go is very difficult

i mean it's very difficult i I believe

for any business owner I think that

might be a reason that people sell it's

like this is my baby i know how to run

it now we uh just a year ago we bought

another company spent a lot of money and

this time we got an SBA loan and so I'm

trying to hand this over to my son and

my leadership team but uh well I've got

a lot invested in this business

financially and uh emotionally or or uh

relationally so to let go is very

difficult and we hired a coach to help

us with that um I embrace paradoxes i

talk to people about that it's both and

you know oftentimes either or you have

to let go you have to let go well you

know it's not that easy by the way I

have a clue i've seen some stuff and I'm

not going to let that happen so it's

it's a paradox of business and life two

questions one have there been any like

big other than like COVID and that all

the downturns that you've gone through

and everything like that have there been

any

big moments that have exposed the

weakness of not letting go early enough

or of not delegating trusting other

people uh in that have helped you know

wake you up or force you to this

realization

are there any regrets yes there's

regrets i mean hindsight's

2020 but uh in a substantial way I would

say no i think in that respect I'm an

optimist i am a mountaintop guy i like

the challenge it's you know the bane of

my life is pursuing the next mountaintop

i try to embrace the moment my goodness

I just went to Florida for 4 days for

golf played terrible golf but enjoyed

two walks on the beach somebody give me

an award for that uh but but uh business

to me different than other people maybe

is pursuing the next goal the next uh

mountaintop it's very fulfilling to

accomplish that there's up ups and downs

i think part of the fulfillment of life

for me is the ups and downs right what

do they say i say what do they say what

do I say life is lived in the mundane

and the dramatic by the way another

philosophy of life I believe there will

be drama

and you know when I when I was mentally

depressed and that summer the industry

had changed and the company I was at

prior to that I would have been the only

saleserson standing i said to my

wife if I stayed at that company I'd be

the only salesperson and it'd be great

and she said "And you wouldn't be

happy." Boy I'm getting emotional right

now cuz she understood me um and so

that's what motivates me is the peaks oh

boy we're in trouble claw our way out

and so are there regrets or or mistakes

made and should I have letting let go of

more pro maybe and probably but also the

the journey of business is this up and

down and this persistence to move

forward second question how have

you delegated the leadership of the

company tested your son tested your

leadership been able to expand beyond

Mike makes all the decisions to now I

bring decisions to a leadership team who

I am subject to them saying no in some

cases how have you worked through that

um and at what size did was that at the

right time do you wish you would have

done it earlier what size would you

recommend a business owner start to put

that in place well that's the biggest

challenge i I think a lot of small

businesses have uh 7 to 10 employees

right and why does a business grow to 7

to 10 employees and because that's what

one person can manage that's enough

relationships for me yeah

so uh our company we had two partners

Kathy and me me the sales type Kathy the

steady service execution hand and uh we

grew to about 2530 employees and that's

about what two people can handle we

actually clawed our way to about 33 and

started banging into uh that edge of

management and that was the challenge

that I relish and I could have sold to

private equity talk about succession

plan uh and decided no um and by the way

I I had eventually bought out my partner

and for the first time in 20 years the

money was all coming to me and once

again I got

bored like man you should just kind of

settle semi-retire let this thing run

like no we need a new challenge so we

bought a year ago we bought this company

and so but now the challenge is with 44

employees 45 uh to put that management

layer in and that is the challenge that

I relish and we've hired a coach i spend

a lot of money on an EOS attraction

coach who does our quarterly meetings

with us and is also available for calls

and so he's a coach to the team he's a

coach to me and I'm I'm I'm working

through that journey of let letting go

it's a challenge it's not easy yeah i

was I was starting to recognize some of

the visionary integrator possibly

language from EOS there so I was about

to ask about that um your son is has

that succession plan already started in

motion um feel free to not answer if you

don't want to but and and does is he the

visionary salesperson or is he like a

opposite of you complimentary you know

I'm comfortable saying that um you know

partnerships are different difficult and

right out of I mean when we bought 21st

century in 2001 it was my best friend

from college who we raised our families

together and we went in business

together and he was the first one out in

' 05 06 and it really shattered our

family relationships and my relationship

partnerships are difficult and then even

working with Kathy and I have had our

challenges over the years and

disagreements and drama partnerships are

difficult and it's the same with my son

i mean family business and partnership

is difficult and real um so a coach

helps that right but uh it's a reality

he understands it so and he is he's

doesn't want to take over the business

right now so that plan is out there and

he's very comfortable doing the right

thing for the business as we move

forward and that's what we're doing

gotcha all right

awesome well Mike this has been great uh

before we move on to the lightning round

uh and conclude this great discussion uh

has there anything I haven't asked about

or anything that you uh you wanted to to

hit on here

i think I think it's pretty good i mean

Okay i Well I got one okay why I three

and when did that name change come in

come come into play well Well I'll tell

that story i love that story is so it

was uh 2001 we got together at a

friend's accounting company in a

conference room we had some crazy people

there steve and Ron kathy led the

brainstorming session and uh uh you know

started out with okay let's just put up

names that come to mind with computers

and technology and people went up and

put IBM and internet and integration and

stuff like that and computers and

technology and then okay let's just

brainstorm anything that comes to your

head and Ron got up and put an eye up

there a small I right i dot before iPod

and before before all that before all

that thank you Barrett

uh Ron gets up and puts an exclamation

mark right next to the eye so it's you

know line dot i'm like that looks really

cool i exclamation mark but please don't

name the company I exclamation mark

that's crazy stuff so we eventually

landed on I2 that was early internet

years we did a Google search you

couldn't find a company with a name I2

so we're like I2 that's the answer and

uh you know went back and realized the

biggest integration company at the time

in technology was actually I2

technologies or something like that it's

like oh crap we we shouldn't do that so

my partner was brainstorming Kathy had

and I look over her shoulder and she had

intrinsic on the screen

intrinsic three

eyes and so I said why not I3 intrinsic

integr uh information integration I3 and

then years later people are like we

can't use the word intrinsic nobody

knows what it means everybody keeps

misspelling it

so that's the long story of how we got

from or how we got to I3 okay and why I

have a fixation on anything with threes

uh uh a fixation yes okay all right very

good and what uh today where you said

about 40 40 44 45 employees or so

um any particular niche for MSPs that

you guys are doing or what's a what's

the target size business at this stage

in your company that you guys serve

that's a very good question and in the

you know the cool term pivot but in the

evolution of business and technology is

uh well I here's what I say is 10 years

it was cloud right all cloud so we got

in the cloud business we're cloud we're

cloud first uh so we message cloud and

certainly Microsoft 365 has become a

dominant cloud uh but five years ago it

was cyber security And we really through

a number of peerroup partnerships and so

on we really built out our cyber

security framework and that's a big part

of what we do today and so today for the

company our big focus is cyber security

and over a 100 companies protecting them

and Barrett I will tell you in the last

uh five years we have helped three

companies not clients of ours uh recover

from major

cyber security incidents and ransomware

it is devastating stuff to see business

owners going through this and if

anybody's listening here my two pieces

of advice is two-factor authentication

on your email business systems anything

you can two-factor authentication with a

different password on everything and

then secondly have a different one yeah

yeah back up your stuff please back up

your stuff we're dealing uh recently

with a company that their backups were

the threat actors found a way to destroy

their backups everything's gone it is a

tragedy but to finish that 10 years ago

cloud focus now cyber security we know

where the industry is going ai we're

going to have to crack that code and

help our clients with it that's the

journey of our business

awesome well thank you for sharing that

Mike all right so you ready for the

lightning round then bring it on all

right uh let's start it uh coffee or tea

and how do you like it prepared oh

coffee i'm a guy that uh you know when

coffee was a quarter a cup I drank Coke

and then I realized I'm destroying my

teeth when coffee Starbucks moved it up

to three four bucks a cup put enough

sugar and latte in it I'm like give me

that stuff though it's coffee

right uh do you prefer pie or cake and

do you have a favorite kind pie pumpkin

or peacon yeah all right what is a

common belief that you've encountered

among entrepreneurs that you would want

to challenge

that is a tough question and I would

just submit that uh you know a good plan

assures success uh no all the planning

in the world uh given my story does not

assure success when I build this

business it will be party time and

fun no look at Bill Gates look at Elon

Musk look at Warren Buffett warren

Buffett still working hard i think he

enjoys it but success is hard work that

that's the reality it is persistence and

hard work okay do you have a favorite

holiday and why christmas i mean tinsel

on the tree well back in the old days my

mom actually put tinsel on the tree i

want more tinsel on my tree and just

family and the warm environment i love

it yeah great are you a morning person

or a night person and do you have a

favorite routine that you like i think

people marry their opposites and I'm a

morning person i'm up i'm in the coffee

i'm reading in the morning uh and then

getting just getting straight on work

getting it done and my wife stumbles out

of bed and and uh and then she wants to

talk at night it's like I'm done i'm a

morning person

it's like wow it's already nine

o'clock yeah totally

um what is one thing that you would want

your successor to remember about working

with you don't slow down i think I think

I think like I said earlier um there's a

lot of certainly in accounting probably

in uh engineering and architecture you

need that

steady steady systematic team and we

have them and but I'm a I'm a a growth

guy i'm a let's go there guy and I would

never want to lose that in a business

so you need both you have both you need

the growth to keep make sure the

business is still here couple years from

now but you need the steady customer

satisfaction to make sure that the

business is still here a couple years

from now amen brother amen yep awesome

uh where are you finding creativity for

yourself right now i like to read books

i'll tell you what I've got a book here

I'll recommend go ahead if you don't

mind do No absolutely i love book

recommendations this is a little

sacrilegious for for for a Christian guy

like me but uh he actually Jean Simmons

actually spoke at a uh uh conference

that I did not attend i read about it in

a magazine i'm like Jean Simmons the

lead singer for Kiss seriously he's

speaking at conferences men's conference

or something pastor's conference he

wrote a book called Me Inc Build an Army

of One Be a Rock God and it's it's bound

like a Bible it's sacrilegious but but

what a fascinating read this guy a poor

immigrant who worked his tail off uh so

so I I love to read uh all different

types of books and find inspiration from

that awesome yeah I love biographies

i'll be adding that one to our bookshelf

here yeah that's Thank you

i don't think I'm to the good part of

the book yet but it's it's it's great

it's getting better

very good um what what's something that

you have coming up in the in the next

year at I3 that's got you really excited

or just personally anywhere anywhere

that's got you excited for this next

year we're building out our cyber

security uh footprint and so again it is

the challenge we just finally a year

later we're all in one building on

Monday so so the possibilities the

challenge to grow this thing and take it

to the next level is real and we've

built a solid cyber security framework

but taking that further and expanding it

I I relish that opportunity and as a

visionary uh that's what gets me up in

the morning and as I can continue to

shed other things and delegate uh that

just energizes me oh I'll just say

furthermore uh that journey that you

described earlier of a new

responsibility how can I get out there

this is part of it how can I be out

there yeah in the community speaking

sharing what I've learned what I know uh

energizes me you're good at it so hear

that from me as a host so I appreciate

you being on where can uh where can

people find out more about you Mike yeah

it's uh i3

businesssolutions.com that's shortened

as

i3bus.com the letter I the number three

bus.com i'm on LinkedIn Facebook Twitter

i'm out there track me down awesome yeah

we'll put all those links in the show

notes too so they can find those with

this episode and Mike I just want to say

thank you for being a guest on the

Artist Succession it's been a pleasure

to hear part of your story and I would

love to consider having you back in the

future if you've got anything else you

want to share so thank you so much

absolutely Barrett thank you you've been

listening to the Art of Succession

podcast with your host Barrett Young

twice a month we'll bring you interviews

sharing the successes and challenges

from business owners with their own

succession stories the Art of Succession

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